Film gives off light when put into the stop bath?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Ian Leake, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. Ian Leake

    Ian Leake Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,485
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    This is a bit bizarre. I was developing some sheet film this morning in trays. When I put each sheet of film into the stop bath, it briefly gave off light. Yes, you read that right – each sheet of film glowed briefly as I put it in the stop.

    I don't think it was a chemical reaction, because after I was finished I used a pipette to squirt a little bit of used developer into the stop bath, and no light was produced.

    Has anyone seen anything like this before? Could be static? Do you have a better idea?

    For what it's worth: the stop was dilute acetic acid, the developer was John Wimberley's WD2H+, and the film was FP4+.

    [Update] I repeated the test with a water stop bath and no other changes. Everything worked as would be expected.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  2. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,199
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Calgary AB,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    A little to much Christmas Cheer consumed?? Maybe?? Just joking. Sounds pretty weird though. I will have to pay more attention when I put my film into the stop however generally speaking I only use a water stop.
     
  3. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

    Messages:
    8,171
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "static electricity' could fog the film so you might want to try to eliminate it. The most common time I see the little sparks is when removing the tape from 120 film. So, I usually cut it instead.

    Check your negatives closely, anything like these visible? They may be very faint

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  4. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,044
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Location:
    South Norfolk
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use a Jobo so I'm not able to observe any strange light occurrences during processing, however I have sometimes seen what looks like a static charge when peeling off 120 film from the paper backing.

    Tom
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Ian Leake

    Ian Leake Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,485
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    It was definitely weird, and real not imagined :-0. I was doing a BTZS film test so each sheet went into the stop at a different time. It happened with every sheet, and was bright enough to light up the tray with a soft luminescence. I’ve never seen or read anything like it before. Maybe my darkroom is haunted!
     
  6. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,923
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    K,Germany
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You just discovered your very own photographic effect:the Leaky Effect!
     
  7. macfred

    macfred Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,290
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I guess he just saw the Star of Bethlehem ... :angel:
     
  8. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,199
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Calgary AB,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Now if you had shot the images using a Leica lens I could understand you getting the "glow" :wink:
     
  9. Eric Rose

    Eric Rose Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,199
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Calgary AB,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    On a more serious note, do you see any difference in the negatives dumped into the stop bath vs water bath stop? I wonder if your nuclear infused stop bath might reduce the contrast somewhat? Given your usual subject matter I can understand your film getting a little excited.
     
  10. DWThomas

    DWThomas Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,357
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Random thought: Any phosphate compounds in the developer? ("phosphorescence") Does sound bizarre.
     
  11. Jarin Blaschke

    Jarin Blaschke Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Ha. I see the same thing, often. I use WD2D+, 8x10 FP4 and a citric acid stop. It’s apparent in the white trays more so than the film itself. I process single sheets emulsion up. I’ve seen it in my hot summer bathroom darkroom and presently in a slightly chilly darkroom. I live in Los Angeles where it’s usually pretty dry.

    I’m still relatively new to sheet film, but so far the negatives seem normal, except for small blooming around fine highlight areas, like bright sunlit leaves against shadow . This is so far a mystery. I’ve assumed it was optics and am about to check my filters. My lens is a very clean apo-sironar-s that I paid good money for, and hope that isn’t the culprit.

    How do your highlights look?

    Maybe we should ask mr. Wimberley about it?

    Jarin
     
  12. Nodda Duma

    Nodda Duma Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,232
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Location:
    Brookline, NH
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  13. OP
    OP
    Ian Leake

    Ian Leake Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,485
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    OK, I'm really impressed! This is must have been what was happening. The negatives stopped in acetic acid had a slightly higher FB+F than the ones stopped in water. Clearly a water stop bath is necessary. Thanks for clearing this up :smile:
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Jarin Blaschke

    Jarin Blaschke Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Good lord, I couldnt imagine yet another reason that Pyro could be such a pain in the a—. Damn you, Pyro and your bewitching tonality!

    Water stop: uneven development, mottling.
    Acid stop: fog, bloody highlights.

    Argh!
     
  16. Jarin Blaschke

    Jarin Blaschke Member

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I mean “bloomy” highlights. No edit function on a phone.

    J
     
  17. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,394
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Location:
    Sonoma County, California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Groups:
    Me too. That's pretty incredible and it's cool that it's been known for nearly 100 years!
     
  18. Richard Man

    Richard Man Subscriber

    Messages:
    596
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    That's some serious google-fu
     
  19. I use tank development so I have never seen this effect.
     
  20. Nodda Duma

    Nodda Duma Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,232
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Location:
    Brookline, NH
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My Google Fu was strong today!
     
  21. Steve Goldstein

    Steve Goldstein Subscriber

    Messages:
    746
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hmm, I wonder if this is the reason I've seen recommendations to use stop bath mixed to half strength when working with some pyro-based developers. If the stop was used one-shot it could probably be mixed even weaker.

    Having said that, I've never seen any evidence of fogging while using Pyrocat-HD with a half-strength acetic acid stop, with either roll film or sheets. I'll look out for this phosphorescence next time I run a few sheets of 4x5, for which I always use trays.
     
  22. OP
    OP
    Ian Leake

    Ian Leake Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,485
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I don’t think it happens with PyrocatHD - at least I’ve never seen it
     
  23. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    8,121
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There are a few chemicals which can give of light. The one that comes to mind is lumenol which when oxidized gives off a cold blue light. Police departments use it to detect blood at a crime scene. However I doubt it would be present in film.
     
  24. mshchem

    mshchem Member

    Messages:
    1,341
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    Location:
    Iowa City, Iowa USA
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I sure have seen static light when tearing paper attached to roll film. I always would exhale onto the paper tape when I would tear the tape. Seemed to help. Something is happening. Thankfully your eyes can focus on very dim light that has no chance of fogging film, especially at the stop bath stage.
     
  25. I just pull very slowly or use a scissors to cut the tape.
     
  26. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    15,446
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It would be interesting to know if anyone has made the same experience.