Let us assume that an old formula, as mentioned by Ferrania themselves, used methyl mercuric iodide or cadmium nitrate. Both possible in products made in Europe (AFAIK at the time), but forbidden in the US. Today, they are forbidden in Europe and the US. This makes manufacture of the product impossible and the sale of a product containing them impossible.
There are grandfathered products that were made by companies that went out of business, that used banned chemicals and are allowed to be sold but not made (again AFAIK).
These are fairy tales made up to show real chemicals in an unreal situation. The fact is that whatever chemicals were used in Ferrania / Scotch products are no longer available or manufactured for one reason or another. So, here is the premise - make a cake with no flour! Too hard, I'll give you the flour and take away the eggs! If you can't do this in 30 mins, you are chopped!
Simple as that. You have to make a product missing a critical ingredient and you have to find a substitute. I hope they do at Ferrania or the product may be quite a bit more like TIP products that we would like.
(...)
But what exactly makes C41 "better" than E6?
It seems everyone's opinions vary somewhat, is C41 better for prints, or because it is finer grained?
I disagree, and herein lies the crux of everything related to ongoing manufacture of all gelatin silver film/paper. No one needs any of it. The entire chemical imaging industry exists today only to supply wants. Unless those wants are great enough to sustain operating costs plus whatever level of profit each manufacturer's owners deem sufficient, production will end.
Although my instincts provide a guess, I am unable to predict with any accuracy what and how much the world population of gelatin silver product users will "want" going forward. That information alone, and not all the postings of desire or Kickstarter projects imaginable, will determine the industry's future. In the meantime, I carry a substantial doomsday stockpile and continue regularly refreshing it with new stock as the old is used. There's not really anything APUG bleating can do to change things.
Note to Roger. I started off this post quoting one of yours, but my thrust isn't directed at you. You conveniently provided a good jumping off point for my sermon.
Well, Agfa.com page for their Aerial Photography products reads: Film technology is alive and kicking!
Then, go to http://www.agfa.com/sp/global/en/internet/main/solutions/microfilm/index.jsp and you can read
Thats hardly not interested as you verse it
E6 is usually finer grained, and i would suspect this has something to do with the fact that the process includes a reversal step. They push process correctly, usually.
C41 films give more natural (precise) color, have far wider exposure latitude and higher sharpness. And they are easier to print. But this does not matter too much once you project a slide on a good screen using a high-quality lens...
InovisCoat are interested in photographic emulsions: http://www.inoviscoat.de/en/markets/photography
Id forgotten him - did you ask what film he was using?
You only get six shots per 120 with wide option.
But, Agfa isn't interested in producing film specifically for the consumer market. They sold that part long time ago. Remember the factory in Leverkusen?
Miha,
I had in my head that Mirko (Adox) said something on those lines some time ago. That's where my info comes from. He said they didn'r specifically enter the consumer market, that wasn't their main business.
Sounds like VERY poor laboratory notebook practices at Kodak! As my former manager once said, "If it's not in your lab notebook, it *never* happened!".
maybe but Kodak bought out lots of competitors like verichrome.
Agfa commercialized embedded couplers?
Ilford discovered Phenodine and commercialized?
Afga Rodinal?
I don't use d76 and I know ID68 is a near clone.
Polariod instant using an Agfa process but lots of their own patents.
Fuji sold cheap film and they still are
1GBP for 200 ISO 24 135 c41 on our high streets
3GBP for 400 ISO 36 in photo shops
that has EK by neck KA won't be selling gold at gold prices, the bw400cn is stuck on our pharmacy shelves too
Ferranni don't need to innovate (I was happy with Ferranni Efke Foma and Adox film) merely to stay legal for hazmat
I have scratch mixed pre E6 and pre c41 Agfa soups.
The risks are that Ferranni can not break even with 35mm and 120 in E6. Impossible are struggling.
Ferranni might have been better to go with c41 for the commercial dependence on local E6 labs.
But I've dug out my 110 found three cartridges and can use a 16mm roll of cine from Foma (or Ferranni if they do mono).
Interesting thread, great good look to FERRANIA I wish them well in their endeavours, science, engineering and passion will hopefully get them to their objectives.
I think we should all be rooting for Film Ferrania to eventually become a sustainable Color Ilford.
That factory (or the equipment and people) became InovisCoat, and InovisCoat, if i recall correctly, manufactures some special film for Lomography and coats films for the Impossible Project.
So they are still alive and making consumer film.
Noel;
Just to give some examples, Ilford took years to commercialize Phenidone and it still decomposes slowly in alkali. Kodak invented Dimezone S, it is more stable, and they commercialized it!
Yes, Agfa invented embedded couplers using the Fischer method. Kodak went on to develop the oil soluble coupler which made slide and curtain coating possible.
Polaroid was unable to reduce color instant to reality and so they hired Kodak to do it for them. Kodak coated the first of the Polacolor films until the new Polaroid plant was completed. Kodak then went on to develop 2 new instant chemistries that were outside of the box and had one on the way to product introduction. It was an integral COLOR imaging system that had an ISO rating of 3000. Polaroid was unable to do this at that time.
PE
But that is a Ferrania notebook in the first place. In the second place is the fact that the formula is correct for a precipitation which is only one step in making an emulsion, and that is what most people misunderstand.
PE
I hope so too. I think we should all be rooting for Film Ferrania to eventually become a smaller-scale, sustainable Color Ilford.
Ken
The ruling by the judge excluded willful patent violation. It was done without intent and Kodak had made a credible effort to avoid willful violation.
PE
So tempted to start two threads that go
"I HATE KODAK"
&
"I LOVE KODAK"
just to keep that fight out of other threads!
Yes, your correct, i expect there would be quite a few more pages in that notebook to that formula, and im sure that Ferrania will just make all that info public for their competition to see since that film was a flagship product of theirs!
I cant quite make out all the writing in the photograph, but i can make out AgNO3, and KBr which is the Silver nitrate and Potassium bromide components of the film.
So if thats all the chemicals used in that film, it should be pretty straightforward since they are the two major components of a B&W film, i dont see any Cadmium or Mercury compounds mentioned there, unless its on another page.
Did most B&W films contain such toxic compounds? I thought it was mainly photographic papers that were of concern.
If so, such a B&W film should be pretty straightforward for them to reproduce without having to substitute chemicals like some are saying.
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