I think we need to manage our expectations a little at the beginning. There is a tendency to think that the customer is still king and is always still right no matter what. But expecting Ferrania to initially give us better E-6 than Fuji, and/or at a lower price point, and possibly in a gazillion formats, and a new color negative film right away as well, might be asking for the impossible.
If we hold them to such a standard right out of the gate, they may never reach critical mass and just be forced to throw in the towel. Then what do we do a year later when Fuji shuts down all color film manufacturing?
Better I think to be a little more patient. And be willing to initially pay what is required to keep them moving forward as a viable long-term option to Fuji. Part of the definition of extinct includes the principle of a very long time.
I also worry about Adox in this same respect. Everyone wants cheap, cheap, cheap. Mirko has written here on several occasions bemoaning the fact that some of his plans for future films are on hold because no one wants to pay what is required to bring them to market. Sometimes I wonder how long he can keep going as well.
Be careful what you ask for...
Ken
I think he/she meant a 400 speed C-41 when they said that.
And I bet not one of you here will pay $15 for a roll of Ferrania film - more than once.
I think we need to manage our expectations a little at the beginning. There is a tendency to think that the customer is still king and is always still right no matter what. But expecting Ferrania to initially give us better E-6 than Fuji, and/or at a lower price point, and possibly in a gazillion formats, and a new color negative film right away as well, might be asking for the impossible.
If we hold them to such a standard right out of the gate, they may never reach critical mass and just be forced to throw in the towel. Then what do we do a year later when Fuji shuts down all color film manufacturing?
Better I think to be a little more patient. And be willing to initially pay what is required to keep them moving forward as a viable long-term option to Fuji. Part of the definition of extinct includes the principle of a very long time.
I also worry about Adox in this same respect. Everyone wants cheap, cheap, cheap. Mirko has written here on several occasions bemoaning the fact that some of his plans for future films are on hold because no one wants to pay what is required to bring them to market. Sometimes I wonder how long he can keep going as well.
Be careful what you ask for...
Ken
You seem to be saying it will suck.
Do tell me more. From what I have been told is that the plants that used to make the chamicals for the integral film where demolished in 2005 and the chemicals ran out in 2008. So that means they had to figure out which new chems to use and how that would effect the mix. Basically it is starting from scratch in in 4 years the have come a long way.
... Ferrani will be in same boat as Fotokemia we don't buy it we wont have it tomorrow. Kodak and Fuji are stuck in exit door. There is a lot of impossible film being shot here.
BTW: I recently spoke to a guy who runs a photo store in a bigger city in Holland. He still offers 135 mm and 120 roll film besides the digital stuff, but he said the main income from his store is from selling this Fuji Instant stuff nowadays.
Go figure ...
Bert from Holland
But: is this "we" a large enough group to make the business case for Ferrani?
Back to Ferrania, on their web site they write:
"We aim for nothing less than fundamentally changing the way you buy, use and process film today.
Most importantly, we aim to restore confidence in the future of analog film.
Our philosophy is simple:
We are people who love film, you are people who love film, and people have the power. So let's do this!"
Folks, THIS Is how you market film. THIS is how you inspire confidence in analogue photography.
Ferrania, I WILL buy your film.
I think a lot of people here underestimate the success Fujifilm has had with their INSTAX line of film. I wonder, does the fact that Fujifilm makes a lot of money from this product in some way ensure that they will be able to continue other films? In other words, does all the volume from INSTAX help keep their other films, at least some of them, feasible? Or are they too different to help keep some efficiency of scale?
Just a silly thought maybe, but who is "we" in this equation (or this thread) about what kind of film "we" are willing to buy for what price?
I'm guessing but I think in this context "we" is a group of analogue photographers who (say to) dislike digital for many reasons and keep using good (old) cameras that use film for good reasons in itself (no pun or criticism intended so don't shoot me).
"We" is a group of people who (mostly) still remember the good old days with a lot of choice in beautiful cameras and also good films, available even at the supermarket. (I still miss Agfa Scala and DrChrome is an ocean away for me).
But: is this "we" a large enough group to make the business case for Ferrani? We have freezers stuffed full with the "good stuff from the old days" and compare everything with the highest quality there ever was with prices from the mass-market-days. We'll buy one rol for good will and then turn back to our freezers (a bit cynical, I know).
But: there is a whole group of "new" people discovering film photography for the first time in their live, that are willing to pay severely for this unique possibility of lifestyle. Look at Lomography,com for instance. They sell whatever in "poor" quality (at least to us APUG people who knew the real stuff in those days) with great marketing skills. Look at the succes of their Petzval gimmick. And talking about expensive film: would you be willing to pay Euro 9.90 (USD 12.90) for a color film of 12 exposures (yep: only 12) that promises to $@&$%*# up every negative like this on purpose?
View attachment 93560 View attachment 93562
But Lomography,com does and there seems to be a big market for it (Nnot my cup of tea). Don't believe me? See: Revolog12 exp. Texture and Revolog 12 exp. Tesla 1.
And if you like your flashes to be read instead of white, use: Revolog 12 exp. Tesla 2.
My point is: the world has changed. Not only are there less original (pre-digital) analogue photographers like here on APUG, but there is also a whole new group of film users with a whole other book of reference for fun & photography. They're in it for fun, not so much for quality. And it seems this second group is bigger than the original APUG folks. Neither group is better then the other, mind you, but from a business point I would wise (being Ferrani) to also look at this new group first. They seem to be willing to pay more for less, if you look at the business success of lomography.com and Holga ...
It might be that Ferrani doesn't have to compete with Provia 100 shot in a Nikon F, Hass X-pan, but with Lomo-film shot in a Holga with a purple flash filter or something like that. They will look at us too, I believe, but we're only a (smaller) part of the business case.
BTW: I recently spoke to a guy who runs a photo store in a bigger city in Holland. He still offers 135 mm and 120 roll film besides the digital stuff, but he said the main income from his store is from selling this Fuji Instant stuff nowadays.
Go figure ...
Bert from Holland
The best color print films ever made are still available today. If we buy them they will stay.
Even though the line of production is separated from still film, it is very interesting the sucess that instant is having. And it was supposed to die due to digital... but the very quirkiness of integral instant film is what makes it successful.I think a lot of people here underestimate the success Fujifilm has had with their INSTAX line of film. I wonder, does the fact that Fujifilm makes a lot of money from this product in some way ensure that they will be able to continue other films? In other words, does all the volume from INSTAX help keep their other films, at least some of them, feasible? Or are they too different to help keep some efficiency of scale?
If you're referring to Kodak's current color negative films, that's a fantasy. No matter how much "we" buy, future availability of those films is 100% dependent on Hollywood continuing to pacify some directors by purchasing motion picture film it really doesn't want. When that ends, you might find color negative still films labeled "Kodak," but they'll be sourced somewhere else and have no connection to the ones available today.The best color print films ever made are still available today. If we buy them they will stay.
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