Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

[Xmas]

The impossible example is a bad one.

The reason that the company couldn't immediately make a really good polaroid film was because the old chemists were brought in to work on the new films however they were not allowed to use the same processes as they use with Polaroid because of licensing and patents... If they were allowed to use the same exact process as Polaroid, they would have the same exact stuff Polaroid film today, it's the patents that are owned by someone else that they can't easily procure, it's not financially feasible to buy them, thats preventing them from having the older Polaroid films in stock

Thought I agree the machines kodak use probably have as much to do with quality as the chemistry behind the emulsions.

Then again ilford can easily coat the Rollie IR films... So...

Sorry that reads like a Holywood SiFi script, it is total denial of the problem.

The manufacturing is as much the process workers as the chemists. Kodak could not make plusx at Harrow UK with the patents and Rochester staff to hand they would need several attempts, all the old hands from 2005 have long gone.

It would be easy for Ilford to rebadge SFX...

How many times did your team need a second take?

Ask the sites pet technical expert...

 

[wblynch]

Laws should be changed to declare a patent abandoned once the owner is no longer using it.

One has to wonder who, if anyone at all, owns the Polaroid patents.

The other side of patent protection is one has to defend the patent. So if Impossible were to use Polaroid's patents, whoever holds the rights would have to be willing and financially able to pursue infringement in the courts.

And, there's always the chance the courts would side with Impossible.

But still there needs to be an abandonment clause.

 

[AgX]

The impossible example is a bad one.

The reason that the company couldn't immediately make a really good polaroid film was because the old chemists were brought in to work on the new films however they were not allowed to use the same processes as they use with Polaroid because of licensing and patents... If they were allowed to use the same exact process as Polaroid, they would have the same exact stuff Polaroid film today, it's the patents that are owned by someone else that they can't easily procure, it's not financially feasible to buy them, thats preventing them from having the older Polaroid films in stock

Thought I agree the machines kodak use probably have as much to do with quality as the chemistry behind the emulsions.

Then again ilford can easily coat the Rollie IR films... So...

You are wrong.

The problem with a proceeding of manufacture of Polaroid instant materials after the closure of Polaroid as manufacturer was as well

-) the desinterest of the respective persons

-) the physical non-existance of the original elements



The initiative and knowledge to do so then came from outside Polaroid.
No, not Florian Kaps.

 

[Peter de Groot]

Polaroid stopped making chemicals in 2005. The factories that produced them have long since been demolished. Some key chemicals are illegal today and Impossible is not allowed to use them. Even with the patens and recipies they have to start from scratch because every component reacts differently to another. Change one of them and you have to start all over testing and making it right. If you have to change half a dozen......also the negative materials were made by Polaroid and in the beginning by Kodak. The stuff is not being made anymore so a new vendor and therefor new negative materials were needed. That has also a different reaction to the chemicals etc....do you get the picture? It is not as easy to get the right recipy it is a lot more than that. And that is why it is so amazing on how fast Impossible has been able to create a decent colour film. Polaroid took about 20 years or so to get decent color in their pictures.

Anyways when Ferania starts producing I will start buying.

 

[Hatchetman]

And that is why it is so amazing on how fast Impossible has been able to create a decent colour film. Polaroid took about 20 years or so to get decent color in their pictures.
.

Which is why I generally ignore all the Doomers.

 

[Xmas]

Polaroid stopped making chemicals in 2005. The factories that produced them have long since been demolished. Some key chemicals are illegal today and Impossible is not allowed to use them. Even with the patens and recipies they have to start from scratch because every component reacts differently to another. Change one of them and you have to start all over testing and making it right. If you have to change half a dozen......also the negative materials were made by Polaroid and in the beginning by Kodak. The stuff is not being made anymore so a new vendor and therefor new negative materials were needed. That has also a different reaction to the chemicals etc....do you get the picture? It is not as easy to get the right recipy it is a lot more than that. And that is why it is so amazing on how fast Impossible has been able to create a decent colour film. Polaroid took about 20 years or so to get decent color in their pictures.

Anyways when Ferania starts producing I will start buying.

The 7 Polariod patents that Kodak were stopped for in 86 were still valid in 86 but will have expired long ago, some of the other patents had expired by 86. But that won't have helped Impossible one bit.

Polariods film in early 70s was pretty good Impossibles first offering was unusable by comparison. Id not say their current film is as good as Polariods early colour film.

Impossibles development budget probably much smaller than Polariods and thus it is impressive that they have been able to bootstrap to today's film.

But it is not APUG people who are buying the bulk of the film or the 2nd hand cameras?

I don't see Ferrania having any more sales than Kodak or Fuji today. The market for E6 is vanishing. Maybe that will be enough for them for a while.

I don't think Ilford would make a tripack XP2+ ie a colour C41 film because as mini labs dissappear C41 will lose volume because of lack of convenience. My local mini lab closed last month that (loss of convenience) will stop me using XP2+ - HP5+ instead.

 

[StoneNYC]

I thought the Rollei IR films are Agfa product?

Tom

Well I saw a post here recently that said that this person knew that ilford was actually doing the IR stuff in 120 rolls at least... And if you look at the backing paper of PanF+ and compare it to RollieIR400 it's the EXACT same paper.

 

[Xmas]

Cosina made a lotta SLRs for other companies...

But are Agfa coating any film today?

My last batch of APX100 did not say 'made in Ge'... previous batch did say 'made in Ge'...

 

[Dr Croubie]

Laws should be changed to declare a patent abandoned once the owner is no longer using it.

One has to wonder who, if anyone at all, owns the Polaroid patents.

The other side of patent protection is one has to defend the patent. So if Impossible were to use Polaroid's patents, whoever holds the rights would have to be willing and financially able to pursue infringement in the courts.

And, there's always the chance the courts would side with Impossible.

But still there needs to be an abandonment clause.

I thought there was? ie, that's why Rodinal is (there was a url link here which no longer exists) in the States again? (or is that because it's a "trademark" not "patent" thing)

 

[chrisaisenbrey]

Cosina made a lotta SLRs for other companies...

But are Agfa coating any film today?

My last batch of APX100 did not say 'made in Ge'... previous batch did say 'made in Ge'...

APX100 new is distributed by AgfaPhoto Holding GmbH, a German trading company which has no own production.

Rollei infrared is produced by Agfa-Grevaert, a Belgian cooperation.
Agfa-Grevaert has coating facilities. If a film is coated by Agfa it is made in Belgium.

So Rollei Infrared is made by Agfa
but AgfaPhoto APX100 is not made by Agfa

 

[AgX]

Well I saw a post here recently that said that this person knew that ilford was actually doing the IR stuff in 120 rolls at least... And if you look at the backing paper of PanF+ and compare it to RollieIR400 it's the EXACT same paper.

You have to differ between emulsion making/coating and converting.

 

[AgX]

But are Agfa coating any film today?

Agfa most probably is the largest film manufacturer worldwide.

 

[StoneNYC]

You have to difer between emuksin making/coating and converting.

Yes, you're right, this post said the 120 is "finished" by ilford and my small brain remembered that as MADE.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[kuparikettu]

I don't see Ferrania having any more sales than Kodak or Fuji today. The market for E6 is vanishing. Maybe that will be enough for them for a while.

Ferrania is primarily targeting motion picture film audience. There has been a noticiable gap since Kodak stopped producing E-6 film, since many super-8 shooters lost their color reversal film option. There is still quite a big market for that, even if not big enough for Kodak to coat E-6. After all, Ferrania can coat film in smaller quantities so it doesn't have the same problem as Kodak had.

...not to mention that Ferrania is like an icon for the hope of color film in the future. Many are going to buy from them just because of that.

 

[Xmas]

Ferrania is primarily targeting motion picture film audience. There has been a noticiable gap since Kodak stopped producing E-6 film, since many super-8 shooters lost their color reversal film option. There is still quite a big market for that, even if not big enough for Kodak to coat E-6. After all, Ferrania can coat film in smaller quantities so it doesn't have the same problem as Kodak had.

...not to mention that Ferrania is like an icon for the hope of color film in the future. Many are going to buy from them just because of that.

Kodak closed their UK and French smaller scale film manufacturer circa 2005 cause they were less profitable.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Kodak's current situation and Ferrania's current situation could not be further apart. Kodak is no longer primarily even a film manufacturer. That's why they dumped their film business as part of the settlement. It was no longer critical path for them going forward in the long term.

Kodak wants out. Ferrania wants in.

Ken

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak's current situation and Ferrania's current situation could not be further apart. Kodak is no longer primarily even a film manufacturer. That's why they dumped their film business as part of the settlement. It was no longer critical path for them going forward in the long term.

Kodak wants out. Ferrania wants in.

Ken

Well stated Ken.

 

[Nzoomed]

Kodak's current situation and Ferrania's current situation could not be further apart. Kodak is no longer primarily even a film manufacturer. That's why they dumped their film business as part of the settlement. It was no longer critical path for them going forward in the long term.

Kodak wants out. Ferrania wants in.

Ken

Hasnt the film division of kodak Split to form a new company?
Some sort of super fund now runs it?

IDK, but whoever is running the film division should create a niche market, if Eastman Kodak are no longer running it, i dont think this should be an issue.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...IDK...

Apparently there's a lot about this you don't know. Researching relevant threads in the archive here would reveal a lot.

...should...

Offering advice from a basis of "not knowing" is perilous.

 

[TimFox]

Setting aside the marginally-relevant comments on this thread, is there any actual news about possible release dates of Ferrania E-6 products?

 

[AgX]

No, nothing at all.

They announced a announcement to be made in mid-september.

 

[M.A.Longmore]

.
I will be waiting patiently for the announcement, of the announcement . . .

.

 

[ME Super]

♫Announcements! Announcements! Announcements!
A horrible way to die
A horrible way to die
A horrible way to be talked to death!
A horrible way to die.
Announcements! Announcements! Announcements!♫

Sorry, couldn't resist. That's the 1st stanza of a much, much, much longer song. I believe the intent of the song is to make the speaker forget what he (or she) was going to announce. And somebody said "announcement" or some form of that word enough that it made me unable to resist.

 

[M.A.Longmore]

♫Announcements! Announcements! Announcements!
A horrible way to die
A horrible way to die
A horrible way to be talked to death!
A horrible way to die.
Announcements! Announcements! Announcements!♫

Sorry, couldn't resist. That's the 1st stanza of a much, much, much longer song. I believe the intent of the song is to make the speaker forget what he (or she) was going to announce. And somebody said "announcement" or some form of that word enough that it made me unable to resist.

.
ME Super,

Please, step away from the computer . . .

Thanks !

Ron
.

 

[ME Super]

Too bad it's a cloudy day today. I have IR400S in the camera. Oh well it makes a good panoramic B&W film too. Guess I'll go make some pictures.