Film Ferrania P30 H+D Curve with Replenished XTOL for 11:15 at 24C and 1 inversion every 2 minutes

[Adrian Bacon]

Adrian Bacon submitted a new resource:

Film Ferrania P30 H+D Curve with Replenished XTOL for 11:15 at 24C and 1 inversion every 2 minutes - A development time resource for replenished XTOL and Film Ferrania P30

For reference, and if anybody wants to discuss. I'm including this information for P30 because Kodak does not list times for this recently released emulsion in their J-109.

I've made these exposures as carefully as I could and eliminated as many variables as I realistically could. While it is not scientific, and certainly not up to ISO or probably manufacturer standards, it is as accurate as I can make it with what I have available to me, and certainly accurate enough that I thought it...

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[ic-racer]

At 11 min it appears way over developed. Gamma greater than 1. Maybe 5 minutes or a lower temp. I used to put ice in spare bottles to bring my Jobo down to 18C to process some high contrast film as continuous tone.

Also, if you have a darkroom, repeatable light source and incident meter, why not just sandwich the film with a stepwedge and avoid the lens altogether to make the H&D plot? Your H&D curve looks nice, but seems like it would be easier to make just a single exposure rather than a series.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

At 11 min it appears way over developed. Gamma greater than 1. Maybe 5 minutes or a lower temp. I used to put ice in spare bottles to bring my Jobo down to 18C to process some high contrast film as continuous tone.

Also, if you have a darkroom, repeatable light source and incident meter, why not just sandwich the film with a stepwedge and avoid the lens altogether to make the H&D plot? Your H&D curve looks nice, but seems like it would be easier to make just a single exposure rather than a series.

less time with 1 inversion every two minutes doesn’t do anything but wipe speed off the bottom end. It’s still crazy high contrast, and at EI 16, the highlights overwhelm the halation layer. You can see that between the two 11:15 times. One is jobo agitation, the other is 1 inversion every 2 minutes.

my darkroom is dark enough for bw paper, but not for film. That and I’d prefer to use a method that anybody with a grey card and a camera can roughly reproduce.

 

[ic-racer]

Gamma is greater than 1, how would you ever print it? Development should not change the ISO speed. It just changes contrast. Jone's speed point, the tangent for '0.3 times the gradient,' moves to the LEFT (more sensitive) when development is less. This is very basic stuff.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The curve looks great. Have you tested P30 with D-23? I had great success over the weekend at 1+1. I posted some pictures in the Film Ferrania P30 thread. How do images look? Would love to see some that were developed in replenished Xtol.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Gamma is greater than 1, how would you ever print it? Development should not change the ISO speed. It just changes contrast. Jone's speed point, the tangent for '0.3 times the gradient,' moves to the LEFT (more sensitive) when development is less. This is very basic stuff.

it would be a very high contrast print where you only have 6-7 stops visible. If scanning with any decent canner, you’ll be able to pick up quite a lot more DR (3.3-3.6 density pretty easily).

when I get a chance, I’ll expose a roll at EI 16 and run it for 5 minutes. Very much doubt zone 1 will be at 0.1 density. Giving more exposure than EI 16 will just overwhelm the anti-halation layer even more for zones 8-10. As it is at EI 16, lights bleeds beteen frames so much that I can’t see film base plus fog between the frames, effectively limiting total dynamic range anyway.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

The curve looks great. Have you tested P30 with D-23? I had great success over the weekend at 1+1. I posted some pictures in the Film Ferrania P30 thread. How do images look? Would love to see some that were developed in replenished Xtol.

I’ve not done D-23. I’m working on getting some images in replenished XTOL, though it’s gonna be at least a few weeks as my lab was burglarized over this past weekend and all my stuff got stolen. It’s covered under my business insurance, so I’m fine, just have the annoyance and lost time to deal with.

 

[MattKing]

my lab was burglarized over this past weekend and all my stuff got stolen.

Ouch!
Did they steal film development equipment???
This must mean that Film is not Dead!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I’ve not done D-23. I’m working on getting some images in replenished XTOL, though it’s gonna be at least a few weeks as my lab was burglarized over this past weekend and all my stuff got stolen. It’s covered under my business insurance, so I’m fine, just have the annoyance and lost time to deal with.

Sorry to hear that! I know the feeling. Way back in 2005, I was out of country and came back to find my house had been broken into, and ALL my gear stolen, along with all electronic devices, clothes, jewelry... The bastards even broke into my darkroom, and stole my precious densitometre. Then the pukes used both my vehicles to transport everything! Thankfully they left my negatives intact. Insurance replaced all my stuff, but my wife lost very sentimental jewelry. NEVER want to go through that again!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Ouch!
Did they steal film development equipment???
This must mean that Film is not Dead!

they didn’t take the enlargers, JOBOs or processing tanks/chemistry, but pretty much everything else is gone. Basically if it required multiple people and/or a car to move, or looked complicated to disconnect it was left behind.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

...the bastards ate all my Haagen-daz icecream as well!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Sorry to hear that! I know the feeling. Way back in 2005, I was out of country and came back to find my house had been broken into, and ALL my gear stolen, along with all electronic devices, clothes, jewelry... The bastards even broke into my darkroom, and stole my precious densitometre. Then the pukes used both my vehicles to transport everything! Thankfully they left my negatives intact. Insurance replaced all my stuff, but my wife lost very sentimental jewelry. NEVER want to go through that again!

thx. Yeah, not pleasant, but at least nobody was in the building at the time, so no injuries.

 

[MattKing]

I'm assuming you have backups of anything digital that has value to you.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

thx. Yeah, not pleasant, but at least nobody was in the building at the time, so no injuries.

After that experience, we got a big dog, and an alarm system. Wish we had both to begin with! We were pretty sure who was responsible. There was a criminal living in the next neighbourhood. When he was released from detention, break ins began...houses, cars, etc. As soon as he was detained, the crime spree ended. Gets out again, and guess what happened? There hasn't been a crime spree for several years now so maybe they locked him up for good!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I'm assuming you have backups of anything digital that has value to you.

oh yeah. I keep an offsite physical backup and encrypted copies on two different cloud storage services. That part is fine.they didn’t take any customer work, so other than the disruption, everything will turn out.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

After that experience, we got a big dog, and an alarm system. Wish we had both to begin with! We were pretty sure who was responsible. There was a criminal living in the next neighbourhood. When he was released from detention, break ins began...houses, cars, etc. As soon as he was detained, the crime spree ended. Gets out again, and guess what happened? There hasn't been a crime spree for several years now so maybe they locked him up for good!

yeah, I’ll be looking to beef up some security measures, though I doubt it’ll be much of a deterrent. The police said that somebody has been systematically hitting all the buildings in that area over the last several months and they have a team assigned to the case as the accumulated loss between all the businesses hit so far has exceeded a million dollars in stolen currency and equipment.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

yeah, I’ll be looking to beef up some security measures, though I doubt it’ll be much of a deterrent. The police said that somebody has been systematically hitting all the buildings in that area over the last several months and they have a team assigned to the case as the accumulated loss between all the businesses hit so far has exceeded a million dollars in stolen currency and equipment.

I talked to the Mountie on my case and he said they have to catch them in the act, and even then, the revolving door of justice usually spits them back out on the street same day.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I've updated the original post with readings for 5:00 and 5:30, both at EI 12. If you want to expose at EI 10, the 5:00 time looks promising, though the zone 1 would still be a touch low, but the zone 5 would likely be right in the zone. I also shot a roll outside of a few things, and processed it at 5:30, it's hanging to dry, so I'll post scans when I have them.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

OK... Here are some sample photos... I shot these with a Canon A2E with Canon's 40mm STM Pancake prime. I put it it in AV mode and just walked around and took some pictures with the ISO in the camera set to 12. I think I should have done EI 10, as the shadows are pretty lacking in detail. My aperture varied between 2.8 and 5.6.

First off, here's a studio shot of an X-Rite Colorchecker Passport Photo. The Color response of P30 is... interesting. It does not appear to be particularly sensitive to reds and very sensitive to cyans, blues, and purples. I lit the shot with a 5500K strobe, incident metered for EI 12.

In terms of grain, this is relatively fined grained, though this is very much not my favorite emulsion.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

The curves look very similar to Tri-X, with that long toe, and slight bend in the higher densities. I'm tempted to do side by side comparisons...