Film Ferrania - Developments from October 2023 onward

[ChrisGalway]

.....

The current E6 films sold are only two (2) and both are hideously expensive. .....

I agree that, on average, E6 films are definitely more expensive than colour negative ones. But in Europe, Fujifilm Provia 100f, in 120 size, is typically €11-€14 per roll, compared to Kodak Gold €10 and Portra 160 €15, Portra 400 even more. (My last batch of Provia 100f, two months ago, cost €110 + €10 shipping for 2 boxes of five.)

The problem with Provia 100f for me is not so much the price, it's getting hold of the stuff in the first place. It's available at random times which appear to be getting less frequent. And the alternative, Ektachrome in 120 is typically more than €20 a roll ... but available.

Another colour transparency film of similar quality to Ektachrome/Provia/Velvia would be wonderful!

 

[Prest_400]

About a new E6 film, remember that Japan Camera Hunter had collaborated with some different film manufacturer for a new film... Aka one of the Jake Seal's sites, Monheim?

https://m.dpreview.com/news/9422171185/japan-camera-hunter-announces-fugufilm-400-slide-film-an-all-new-reversal-emulsion

Even if the production did not prosper, IIRC as the costs of this manufacturing had soared. The engineered film is somewhere there.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

JCH rebrands film. This Fugu stuff is no different.

 

[Prest_400]

JCH rebrands film. This Fugu stuff is no different.

But in this case it was supposed to be a new fim, E6 ISO 400, and my point is that some manufacturer has developed that prototype and the work is mothballed.

 

[flavio81]

I agree that, on average, E6 films are definitely more expensive than colour negative ones. But in Europe, Fujifilm Provia 100f, in 120 size, is typically €11-€14 per roll, compared to Kodak Gold €10 and Portra 160 €15, Portra 400 even more. (My last batch of Provia 100f, two months ago, cost €110 + €10 shipping for 2 boxes of five.)

Amazing!

 

[Nzoomed]

The price of e6 doesn't bother me too much as I dont shoot that much in a year but its not like c41 is much cheaper if we are talking about portra or ektar etc.
I spent almost 40 bucks (nzd) on a roll of the stuff not that long ago.
What's important to me is i can still shoot it.
I just need to get through my stockpile of e100g and e100vs now!

 

[Agulliver]

But in this case it was supposed to be a new fim, E6 ISO 400, and my point is that some manufacturer has developed that prototype and the work is mothballed.

He claimed so. Others who used it disagreed.

Manufacturing colour film, C41 or E6, is much more complicated and difficult than B&W. Just look at how those nice people at Harman, who perfected B&W many decades ago, are taking time to make a "normal" colour film.

Ferrania have a bit of an advantage in that they were once possibly the world's largest manufacturer of C41 film and made an E6 film. They haven't done so since 2009 but the ability and knowledge was there. But it isn't turning a key and restarting production.

 

[brbo]

Ferrania have a bit of an advantage in that they were once possibly the world's largest manufacturer of C41 film...

When was Ferrania world's largest C-41 manufacturer?!

 

[Fortepun]

When was Ferrania world's largest C-41 manufacturer?!

,,Ultimately, Ferrania-3M found the greatest success as the largest supplier of private label film to customers around the world. By the 1990s, the only trace that remained of the Ferrania connection was the tiny "Made in Italy" printed on millions of rolls of film and disposable cameras, sold under hundreds of different brands, in supermarket and drugstore chains worldwide."

Largest or not, the 3M-powered Ferrania sold more cheap C-41 film than Fuji, Agfa and Konica combined, and forced Kodak to be more active at the consumer level as well.

 

[brbo]

So, largest, if you don't count those who are (much) bigger.

 

[Fortepun]

So, largest, if you don't count those who are (much) bigger.

Only Kodak was bigger, and I'm not sure about C-41 global market share at the hight of 3M-Ferrania. They may have been the largest producers of color films, including 3M slide films.

 

[brbo]

Oh, dear...

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, it may very well be the case that during some year or years 3M/GAF/Ferrania made more rolls of colour film in the most common amateur formats than the Kodaks or Fuji or ???
There was a lot of that film around!
I expect though that if you add in the other formats, and the other types of film, the largest would have been the Kodaks.

 

[Nzoomed]

He claimed so. Others who used it disagreed.

Manufacturing colour film, C41 or E6, is much more complicated and difficult than B&W. Just look at how those nice people at Harman, who perfected B&W many decades ago, are taking time to make a "normal" colour film.

Ferrania have a bit of an advantage in that they were once possibly the world's largest manufacturer of C41 film and made an E6 film. They haven't done so since 2009 but the ability and knowledge was there. But it isn't turning a key and restarting production.

You reckon they made more of the stuff than Kodak or fuji? I know they were fairly big and made alot of re-labeled film for other brands, but didnt realise they were that big!

 

[Agulliver]

One needs to remember that Ferrania supplied most of the huge European and British photo labs with their "free film with D&P" offers for decades. It didn't have the Ferrania name on it, but it was made by them. Big supermarket chains applied their name to Ferrania film. Small chains of cameara shops too, all across Europe. And they did sell under their own name too.

But often the only clue was that "made in Italy" label. Ferrania made 35mm, 120, 127, 126 and in vast quantities...though it would be true to say that Kodak might have edged them out in terms of sheer numbers because the Ferrania film was squarely aimed at the amateur snapshot photographer. Which is not to say it was bad at all. But it wasn't Portra. It was definitely available in the USA too, though I am less familiar with that market at least prior to the mid 1990s. I do, however, recall buying Polaroid branded film at Wal-Mart circa 1997 which was absolutely manufactured by Ferrania. They made 8mm and super 8 cine film too.

I've still got a ton of negatives which would have been sold as "Prinz Color" (Dixons house brand name for photo gear) because I grew up near the vast Photo Trade Processing lab which handled Dixons and Photopost D&P. Just that lab alone must have shipped millions of films. It was truly huge. I had a tour of just part of it as a child and I'd never seen a building so big. And that was just one customer of Ferrania, in one country....they had the similar market throughout Europe.

Maybe Kodak was bigger. We'll never know for sure. But for sure, Ferrania were producing more camera film than the others Fuji, Agfa, Konica/Sakura, Ilford. It's just that most of it didn't carry the Ferrania name and logo.

 

[Nzoomed]

I wonder how big their big boy coating machine compared in size to Kodaks?
Its amazing they were able to perform coating runs for that long iirc 2007 was their last costing run they did there.

I have the impression that at that stage ferrania never had much in the way of a professional line of films as far as C41 goes anyway. Their scotchchrome e6 films could be considered a professional film however, looks like it was available in iso 1000?
That would have made it the highest speed slide film on the market?
Not too sure when they last made e6 film there. Looks like it was just Solaris that was made through to the end.

 

[Agulliver]

After being bought by 3M, Ferrania certainly concentrated on amateur film. Others might be able to fill in more gaps but I do not believe that they produced film specifically aimed at professionals. Their C41 film was good, but a little more grainy than Kodak and Fuji, especially the 400 and 800 ASA/ISO films. But they were probably not pumping R&D funds into making the best possible film, they were making film aimed at the mass market who wanted 6x4 prints and rarely anything else. I never used their slide film but I get the impression it was not highly thought of?

Looking back at the film I shot under the Prinz-Color brand in the 70s and 80s, and the Truprint brand in the 90s which was all Ferrania manufactured film....and the Ferrania Solaris I shot in the early 2000s....it's good stuff in 100 and 200ISO, pretty much on a par with the better known names. I was shooting it because it was effectively free. As I said, I grew up near PTP which was possibly the biggest film processing lab in the UK. But it was also open to the public who could drop off film there and pick up the prints and negs the following day....along with a free "Prinz Color" film, initially 100ASA later 200ASA.

I don't think we should underestimate just how much film Ferrania was cranking out in those days. They were supplying a lot of those huge labs across Europe and certainly for a time they were supplying Wal-Mart in the USA too. Goodness knows who else....I mean, do we know who made Kirkland film for Costco?

Of course the main Ferrania campus is no more and all that remains is the LRF (the research building, much smaller). But the documents from those days seem to have been kept along with some of the know-how. It's far from a turnkey thing to resume colour film production but they have a bit of an advantage over Harman in some respects, in that they've actually done it before.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Wasn't Dynacolor/Dynachrome film made by 3M Ferrania?

My first summer job ... 1966! ... was doing chemical tests all night in a Dynacolor processing lab in Alexandria, VA (US). We processed both Kodachrome and Dynachrome as I recall, I think it must have been the K11 process.

I got the job through 3M Ferrania R&D Lab in Harlow, Essex (UK) and I'm pretty sure the whole operation had their production facility in Italy, where they owned Ferrania. (The R&D lab had many ex-Ilford employees.)

Yes, Ferrania made a lot of film back then!

 

[Nzoomed]

After being bought by 3M, Ferrania certainly concentrated on amateur film. Others might be able to fill in more gaps but I do not believe that they produced film specifically aimed at professionals. Their C41 film was good, but a little more grainy than Kodak and Fuji, especially the 400 and 800 ASA/ISO films. But they were probably not pumping R&D funds into making the best possible film, they were making film aimed at the mass market who wanted 6x4 prints and rarely anything else. I never used their slide film but I get the impression it was not highly thought of?

Looking back at the film I shot under the Prinz-Color brand in the 70s and 80s, and the Truprint brand in the 90s which was all Ferrania manufactured film....and the Ferrania Solaris I shot in the early 2000s....it's good stuff in 100 and 200ISO, pretty much on a par with the better known names. I was shooting it because it was effectively free. As I said, I grew up near PTP which was possibly the biggest film processing lab in the UK. But it was also open to the public who could drop off film there and pick up the prints and negs the following day....along with a free "Prinz Color" film, initially 100ASA later 200ASA.

I don't think we should underestimate just how much film Ferrania was cranking out in those days. They were supplying a lot of those huge labs across Europe and certainly for a time they were supplying Wal-Mart in the USA too. Goodness knows who else....I mean, do we know who made Kirkland film for Costco?

Of course the main Ferrania campus is no more and all that remains is the LRF (the research building, much smaller). But the documents from those days seem to have been kept along with some of the know-how. It's far from a turnkey thing to resume colour film production but they have a bit of an advantage over Harman in some respects, in that they've actually done it before.

Yes, they still have ex-employees that have the knowledge to bring it back too.
Regarding the Kirkland film from Costco, someone here must havr shot it. Its easy to tell if a film has been produced by ferrania, it has the unique markings with the + symbols in between the sprocket holes or the outer edges from memory.

 

[thinkbrown]

The Kirkland signature film I've got in the fridge says Made in Germany so presumably it's OEMed by agfa, not ferrania

 

[foc]

The Ferrania film edge markings (in 35mm) were like this. There were (IIRC) + and/or dots in purple, orange and green depending on the generation of the film.






Agfa had coloured squares, purple or green and also coloured triangles again depending on the generation.



And to confuse matters even more, the Agfaphoto film (made by Ferrania after Agfa closed) had Ferrania markings !!!

 

[twelvetone12]

You reckon they made more of the stuff than Kodak or fuji? I know they were fairly big and made alot of re-labeled film for other brands, but didnt realise they were that big!

Ferrania made xray film for Kodak and boxed it into yellow Kodak boxes. They sold that division to Kodak at the beginning of the '00. There are many interviews from ex Ferrania people on YouTube that talk about this.

 

[flavio81]

So, largest, if you don't count those who are (much) bigger.

Oh, dear...

Why do you find it so hard to believe? Only because you never saw a box that said "Ferrania "? As explained, their main business was selling boxes with other branding.

I also read somewhere that they also made some of the Konica or Sakura or Ilford color film (yes, ilford sold color film in the past).

I don't think we should underestimate just how much film Ferrania was cranking out in those days. They were supplying a lot of those huge labs across Europe and certainly for a time they were supplying Wal-Mart in the USA too. Goodness knows who else....I mean, do we know who made Kirkland film for Costco?

Exactly, think about how much film would wal-mart have sold. And consider that Kodak did NOT make white-label/off-brand film, it wasn't their business. I don't think Fuji was interested either. As far as I understand, for color film only Ferrania made off-brand film, and there was Tura which rebadged Agfa film.

I wonder how big their big boy coating machine compared in size to Kodaks?

There was a video on the old FILM Ferrania website, before being bought by their current owner, they illustrated the size of the film drying tunnel, and the area was something like the area of a football stadium.

Take into account that the Ferrania factory had its own hydroelectric power plant...

I have the impression that at that stage ferrania never had much in the way of a professional line of films as far as C41 goes anyway. Their scotchchrome e6 films could be considered a professional film however, looks like it was available in iso 1000?
That would have made it the highest speed slide film on the market?

Yes, it was the highest speed slide film on the market, and 640T was the highest speed tungsten E6 film in the market by far, only Kodak Ektachrome 320T came close.

One needs to remember that 3M was a serious company, for example in magnetic tape production they were the absolute best in manufacturing quality. When they bought Ferrania they probably would have ensured to create a quality product, even if it was for a low cost tier.

 

[flavio81]

Their C41 film was good, but a little more grainy than Kodak and Fuji, especially the 400 and 800 ASA/ISO films.

I saw a magazine comparison, during the latest years of Solaris film still being alive, of Solaris being compared with the competing products from Fuji (Superia), Kodak (Gold) and Agfa (Vista). They compared speeds 200, 400, 800, and maybe 100 too. Solaris 800 (or was it 200?) had significantly wider latitude than the competitors. The colors for Solaris were good (as were the colors for the other brands). But their products in general were a bit grainier than what the competitors had.

I have used the Ferrania products rebadged as Lomo film, for 100 speed and 800 speed, and I liked the results, cannot complain really. But maybe because I was using medium format thus the grain wasn't apparent.

Of course the main Ferrania campus is no more and all that remains is the LRF (the research building, much smaller). But the documents from those days seem to have been kept along with some of the know-how. It's far from a turnkey thing to resume colour film production but they have a bit of an advantage over Harman in some respects, in that they've actually done it before.

In the 80s there was an "Ilfocolor" and also "Ilfochrome" film, and I read on a book that one of them (can't remember which) was rebranded Sakura, now I also read lately on forums that one of those was really Ferrania film.

In any case, the conclusion is that Ilford never made color film. They did make color paper (Cibachrome) but that was a completely different chemistry obtained from Ciba-Geigy.

EDIT:

I was talking about 1980s Ilford film, but now I found this thing:

ILFOCHROME COLOR REVERSAL FILM 24 EXP – Ilford Ilfocolor

ilfocolor.com

Ilfochrome being made today?!

 

[thinkbrown]

I was talking about 1980s Ilford film, but now I found this thing:

ILFOCHROME COLOR REVERSAL FILM 24 EXP – Ilford Ilfocolor

ilfocolor.com

Ilfochrome being made today?!

Unfortunately right at the bottom of the page it says "This product is produced using Eastman 5294 color reversal film"