Film Ferrania - Developments from October 2023 onward

[flavio81]

Yes, like Lucky, Orwo and Harman colour film put price pressure on Portra and Ektar . All those new experimental films are priced higher (some even significantly higher) than lower end Kodak films (which, in addition, are technically much better).

I think you are not understanding it completely.

Harman Phoenix is still under an experimental phase, it is likely that they still haven't created a profit from their film.

Lucky Color Film is already cheaper than Kodak ColorPlus, at least in china.

People who want a color neg film can choose between Ektar, Portra, and the cheaper Gold and Colorplus. So, whoever is price conscious, can choose Colorplus, Lucky, etc.

However, people who want to shoot E6 film, only have Ektachrome and Provia available. There is no budget alternative. So there is a big oportunity to disrupt the market there. Color Slide film has a chance to become trendy again as soon as it gets down to reasonable prices.

30 years ago I used to buy Tura Chrome 100, E6 slide film, simply because it was significantly cheaper than buying Fuji Sensia, which itself was cheaper than Provia and Astia. Many years ago, Scotch Chrome 100 (made by Ferrania) was available to fill specifically that market need.

 

[loccdor]

All those new experimental films are priced higher

Phoenix was on sale for $8 for a 36 exposure roll the other day. And besides, they're still very early in their development of it compared to Kodak. We'll see what happens in time.

 

[Milpool]

Cheaper? You’ll be lucky if it isn’t more expensive. Where I am a roll of P30 is the most expensive B&W film you can buy, if that’s any indication.

So, lets stop dreaming and setting unrealistic expectations. We'll be very lucky if Ferrania slide film ever sees the light of day and extremely lucky if it's even 10% cheaper than Ektachrome.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I expect that Ferrania's finishing/confectioning capacity may be the largest reason to hope for Ferrania branded colour film.
Assuming they can convince one of the colour film manufacturers to sell them master rolls of something.

 

[Agulliver]

30 years ago I used to buy Tura Chrome 100, E6 slide film, simply because it was significantly cheaper than buying Fuji Sensia, which itself was cheaper than Provia and Astia. Many years ago, Scotch Chrome 100 (made by Ferrania) was available to fill specifically that market need.

Was Tura Chrome actually Ferrania Chrome/Scotch Chrome under another name? I shot a fair amount about 25 years ago before it disappeared and it was certainly acceptable.

What Film Ferrania is known to have is the ability to coat relatively simple B&W films very well and consistently. And potentially a great confectioning capacity. It seems doubtful that they are ready to coat C41 or E6 colour film. But they could obtain master rolls from another manufacturer and confection them. What will be important is the info given about any new colour film. Is it actually coated at the Ferrania campus or somewhere else? Will they actually tell us? The social media posts from them state that the B&W film will indeed be coated in Italy.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm okay with Ferrania confectioning for other manufacturers, as long as they don't brand them as their own... This would be a good way (perhaps) to make some much needed money.

 

[MattKing]

I don't know Andrew. If Eastman Kodak could do a huge run of 1990s vintage Elite Chrome solely for sale to Ferrania, I expect it would be popular
I doubt that Ferrania could raise the capital to order and pre-pay for it though.

 

[AnselMortensen]

ScotchChrome 1000 was a lot of fun.

 

[MattKing]

ScotchChrome 1000 was a lot of fun.

Yech -but to each their own.

 

[Milpool]

Let’s see what Drew Wiley has to say about that LOL

ScotchChrome 1000 was a lot of fun.

 

[polaromar]

FWIW, I expect that Ferrania's finishing/confectioning capacity may be the largest reason to hope for Ferrania branded colour film.
Assuming they can convince one of the colour film manufacturers to sell them master rolls of something.

I think this is actually the difference between now, and before. They're now under the same roof as the ORWO combo (Filmotec + InovisCoat), and thus have access to the Polaroid facilities at Monheim and the experience Filmotec/InovisCoat has in making color film. There's actually a chance of getting Ferrania branded color film.

Otherwise, I hope this happens. It's always good to have options in the market, and right now Ektachrome is the only slide film consistently available. Even if it is more expensive, I'd shoot it for fun still, just like how I prefer ORWO NC200 (in its many prototype guises) over Kodak Gold or ColorPlus. Being different, with character, has value in of itself.

The only concern I have is about how big the market actually is. CN is very popular but slide film seems to scare people, due to how much less forgiving in exposure it is.

 

[flavio81]

Was Tura Chrome actually Ferrania Chrome/Scotch Chrome under another name? I shot a fair amount about 25 years ago before it disappeared and it was certainly acceptable.

Tura Chrome was certainly Agfa Film. Tura (Tura AG) relabeled mostly Agfa film for private labels.

It seems doubtful that they are ready to coat C41 or E6 colour film. But they could obtain master rolls from another manufacturer and confection them.

Yes, however, if we're talking about slide film, then the options to confection E6 film are:

a. buying the slide film from Fuji or Kodak, which would make the product really expensive,
b. or the old Agfa Aviphot, which IMO is not a good film and i don't know if it's still available,
and:
c. make your own film !

Now, please recall that they do have the equipment for coating slide film and negative film. They have the chemists too. They have the formulas and process to coat E6 and C41 film on the very same machines they own. What they don't have is a recipe for an emulsion based on readily available (not "banned") chemical substances, so they need to re-engineer their color emulsions.

 

[MattKing]

ScotchChrome 1000 was a lot of fun.

Yech -but to each their own.

 

[cmacd123]

They were said to be working on colour in the background but if they've achieved anything like in-house colour film, negative or positive, that would be quite something. Colour me sceptical on this one. Maybe it's more connected with one of Jake Sea'experimental"l's previous projects than Film Ferrania?

They might not want to release anything that is "experimental" as they must be at least as good as scotch chrome and scotch colour.

 

[Nzoomed]

They certainly perfected conventional B&W film before the recent problems. While not to everyone's tastes, I don't think there were any complaints about the quality control or coating of P30, P33 and Orto.

They were said to be working on colour in the background but if they've achieved anything like in-house colour film, negative or positive, that would be quite something. Colour me sceptical on this one. Maybe it's more connected with one of Jake Seal's previous projects than Film Ferrania?

Agreed.
No complaints to speak about the film itself that I can see, it was more about how difficult it was to develop with current chemistry, it appears their new version will be more compatible with modern processes that other B&W films use.

As far as E6 goes, here's hoping.
It will be great to see a third E6 option on the market, we need more people shooting it, i have to confess i shoot much less E6 due to cost and the hassle of sending the film away as we have no local lab, but that could change.
Its promising to see Harman and Orwo both working on new colour formulations anyway, its possible that ferrania may go down this route and start with C41 first, but we will wait and see. E6 has the largest gap in the market however.

 

[tykos]

i've got lost in announcements and behind the scenes, but: does ferrania have a coating line suitable for colour, or do they only have a minor line saved from scrap that they're using for bw?
(to be fair they could think of using filmotec's lines to coat ferrania's formulations, if they are compatible with nowadays chemicals)

 

[Nzoomed]

i've got lost in announcements and behind the scenes, but: does ferrania have a coating line suitable for colour, or do they only have a minor line saved from scrap that they're using for bw?
(to be fair they could think of using filmotec's lines to coat ferrania's formulations, if they are compatible with nowadays chemicals)

Their current coating head is capable of doing colour film, all their r&d was done on it for all of their films.
I can't remember how many layers it could coat in one go, but if needed they simply would run the film through a second time for the next layers as far as im aware.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

They are quite capable to coat colour. It'll happen. I feel confident.

 

[tykos]

Their current coating head is capable of doing colour film, all their r&d was done on it for all of their films.
I can't remember how many layers it could coat in one go, but if needed they simply would run the film through a second time for the next layers as far as im aware.

ok, that is good news

They are quite capable to coat colour. It'll happen. I feel confident.

they were capable for sure, but i've read all and its contrary about what remains of the old factory after years of abandonment. let's hope.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

My understanding is that they managed to save essential equipment through their kickstarter campaign...

 

[polaromar]

At the very least, they still have access to Mondheim, which is actively making color film: Polaroid, ORWO NC400, NC500, NC200, Adox Color Mission, and all the stylized Lomo color films. My feel is that the market case for E6 film is more of a blocker than any technical capability.

 

[flavio81]

My feel is that the market case for E6 film is more of a blocker than any technical capability.

But what can you conclude about the market?

The current E6 films sold are only two (2) and both are hideously expensive. Thus, almost nobody buys them.

What can you conclude from this? I don't think one can conclude anything other than "expensive stuff is hard to sell".

 

[Nzoomed]

My understanding is that they managed to save essential equipment through their kickstarter campaign...

Yes, but they dont even need it at this point, was part of their long term plan to use it and help scale things up, also allowing them to produce all the materials in house.
Apparently it was part of a blueprint that 3M had made for converting the LRF into a more sustainable factory in a shrunken market.

But what can you conclude about the market?

The current E6 films sold are only two (2) and both are hideously expensive. Thus, almost nobody buys them.

What can you conclude from this? I don't think one can conclude anything other than "expensive stuff is hard to sell".

Agreed, less shoot E6 because of the cost, but if another cheaper film comes to the market, it increases competition and also means more will start using it.
If demand grows, then it will help the whole industry as all manufacturers will sell more film.

 

[cmacd123]

if another cheaper film comes to the market, it increases competition and also means more will start using it.
If demand grows, then it will help the whole industry as all manufacturers will sell more film.

Ont thing to note is that E100D is the only "shared" product between the still and motion, and it has niche uses in motion. (only projectable colour film for film schools - music videos - and cross processed in ECN-2 for funky colours. another E6 film might grow the market

 

[Nzoomed]

Ont thing to note is that E100D is the only "shared" product between the still and motion, and it has niche uses in motion. (only projectable colour film for film schools - music videos - and cross processed in ECN-2 for funky colours. another E6 film might grow the market

Yes, that was also one reason Kodak re-introduced it from memory too. (what was the story with their new super8 camera, did it ever eventuate?)
There is probably a bigger market for it with motion pictures.
I believe that was the main goal for Film Ferrania also, since its founders were Italian film makers, they wanted to get some motion picture film back on the market, presumably for their benefit also.
P30 was also a black and white motion picture film, so was a good reason for them to get this in production too.