Film Development

[reub2000]

I'm planning on making a setup for developing black and white film.

A couple of questions:
1. What's the difference between these 2 film reels? Is the more expensive one better?

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1484
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1419

2. What's should I use for mixing and storing chemicals?

 

[ann]

Hewes reels are a favorite of many, and are said to be easier to load.

Frankly i can't tell the difference between various ss reels.

We use glass gallon jars for mixing and a variety of glass bottles for storage as i like glass not plastic. Each type of chemistry has it's own container.

You will probably get a variety of answers so perhaps you could borrow a couple of reels and try them out for yourself.

 

[reub2000]

Hewes reels are a favorite of many, and are said to be easier to load.

So are they loaded by rotating the reel and slightly bending the film, or are they loaded differently from other reels? How are they easier?

 

[Konical]

Good Morning, Reub2000,

Hewes reels have, in their center, a pair of small hooks (for lack of a more exact term) which fit into the sprocket holes of 35mm film. Since getting the film started straight is the key to trouble-free loading, these reels have an advantage over most others. They are, however, are only very slightly better than Kinderman reels which use a single puncturing spike in the center. Significantly worse, in my opinion, are just about all the others, most of which use a "springy-thingy" to grab the end of the film at the reel center; I've found those much more prone to mis-loading. If photos I've seen are any indication, however, the Hewes reels for 120, unlike the Kindermans, still go with the "springy-thingy" at the center. I don't own any Hewes 120 reels, so I'm judging only by E-Bay sellers' photos of them; I know the Kindermans are terrific.

Konical

 

[elekm]

If you're new to 35mm developing, loading the film reel does take a few tries to get it right, which is why almost every book recommends trying it with a spare roll of film.

The Hewes reel looks interesting and might be very helpful. The question is: Is this extra help worth double the price?

A suggestion: Get one of each and see which you like best. If you prefer one over the other, you can always buy another.

Also, think about getting two tanks: A tank that holds two 35mm reels and a single tank for one 35mm reel for those times when you want to process just one roll. And a double-reel tank also holds one 120 film reel, which you should also think of buying, unless you never plan to shoot medium format.

What's nice is that this stuff is so durable that it's a one-time purchase. Most have been using the same steel reels and tanks for decades.

 

[Troy Hamon]

In response to the question of whether the Hewes reels are worth double the price of the other one...yes.

I have about 20 SS reels for 35 mm film. Two of them are Hewes reels. I haven't used the other 18 since I discovered the Hewes reels, and I never will again.

 

[Bob F.]

As I don't use SS reels, I can't help on that issue other than to repeat that even I know that Hewes have a first class reputation for quality. I use Paterson plastic reels for roll film. No particular reason: I started out using them and have never had a reason to change...

For mixing and storing chemicals, glass laboratory equipment is undoubtedly the best, but for most of us, plastic measuring cylinders are sufficient. 600ml and 1 litre are good sizes, but you may need smaller ones depending on which developer you use and the size of your film tank. Like most people, I have accumulated quite a few over the years but I keep the ones I use for developer and toner mixing separate from the others to ensure no cross contamination (that's probably over-kill, but better safe than sorry). A syringe (minus needle!) can be useful for things like Rodinal where you only use a few ml of the stock solution.

For storing developer, again glass is the best bet. However, if you are using an off-the-shelf liquid developer you will not need to store any and can just leave it in the original bottle, but check the manufacturer's info on how long it will last once opened. Decanting into multiple smaller glass bottles will help make it last longer once opened. Having said all that, I keep stock strength developer I mix up from powder (ID-11, Ansco 130 etc) in full 2 litre fizzy pop bottles where ID-11 for example will happily sit (in a dark cupboard) for over a year before use.

Stop and fixer can be happily stored in plastic as they are not usually anywhere near as sensitive to oxidisation as developer. A stirring stick with a flat bottom can sometimes be useful for breaking up lumps of chemical when mixing...

Have fun, Bob.

 

[srs5694]

The Hewes reel looks interesting and might be very helpful. The question is: Is this extra help worth double the price?

In a word: Yes! My first SS reels were non-Hewes models, and I had troubles loading them. Note that "troubles" can mean that the film touches itself, which results in undeveloped parts of the emulsion, which ruins one or more frames. How many shots are you willing to lose? Since getting my Hewes reels, I've never had trouble loading my film. (Except for a couple of early attempts, when I mistakenly tried to load it in the backwards direction, which obviously didn't work well!) Unless you're very cash-strapped, paying the extra $8 is well worth it.

A suggestion: Get one of each and see which you like best. If you prefer one over the other, you can always buy another.

Offhand, I can't think of a single post here or elsewhere from anybody who prefers "generic" SS reels to Hewes SS reels. Kindermans get mentioned as being good, too, but in a Hewes-vs.-generic survey, I expect that the Hewes would win with 100% of the vote, or very close to it.

The topic that does divide people is SS vs. plastic. Some prefer SS and others prefer plastic. Plastic tanks and reels have a reputation for being easier to learn, but experienced people can have strong preferences in one direction or the other. Plastic tanks and reels tend to be less expensive than SS tanks and reels, so if you're on a tight budget, you might want to start with plastic rather than SS. Personally, I prefer either of the two plastic tanks and reels I've got (one AP -- the same brand that Freestyle sells as its house brand -- and one Russian-made tank) to my generic SS reels, but I prefer my Hewes reels to any of my plastic reels. The tanks are a minor factor compared to the reels, but the tanks do have their own advantages and disadvantages independent of the reels. Plastic tanks are generally designed to enable fluid temperatures to be taken during processing, whereas SS tanks aren't designed in this way. Plastic tanks usually take more solution than SS tanks, giving SS tanks a modest long-term economic advantage.

Also, think about getting two tanks: A tank that holds two 35mm reels and a single tank for one 35mm reel for those times when you want to process just one roll.

I wouldn't bother with the single-35mm-roll tank. You can develop a single roll of film in a double-35mm-roll tank, using the same volume of chemicals you'd using in a single-roll tank. I normally just put an empty reel on top of the one that holds the film to keep the reel from moving around, and I've never had a problem that I've even suspected to be caused by this procedure. I've even forgotten the empty top reel a few times, with no discernible negative effects.

 

[robert e]

Aside from the quick and easy sprocket-catcher, the other nice thing about Hewes reels is that they are made of a thicker gauge of steel, which makes them far more rigid and stable. Cheap reels get bent out of alignment when they are dropped or stored carelessly, which makes them hard to load, or even useless. Not only are the Hewes coils stronger, the thicker wire makes them more tolerant of slight misalignments, should they happen. 120 film has no sprockets, so Hewes reels in that size use a spring clamp, but are still made of the nice heavier gauge steel.

Now that I have a Hewes reel, I dread having to use the non-Hewes ones. I'd like to get more.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Well, I don't have Hewes reels, but I do prefer Stainless Steel reels of any brand over the plastic. I haven't had a mis-load in a couple of decades. The key is practice and experience. There is a steeper learning curve with learning to load a stainless steel reel, but after a few years you get so that you can "feel" the instant a film starts to misload, and you can back up and have another go. Sometimes backing completely off the reel, in the dark and selecting another one. I always set out at least two more reels than I think I will use, before turning off the lights, so in the event of a non-solvable difficulty I can just take the film off and start on another reel. It is even possible to correctly load onto SS reels that are slightly warped, but it takes a good "feel" with your fingers and hand for what is going on.

 

[reub2000]

At school I've been using stainless steel, so that's what I know how to use. They clip into the center of the film, so they must not be the hewes. I generally leave the film leader out, cut off the leader and attach it to the reel in the light.

 

[fpjohn]

Hello: The hewes reels are worth the extra money as are kinderman reels. Both are robust and properly aligned-economy reels can be impossible to load. I once checked ten and found 1 in 3 were true. It is worth practicing in the light with a dummy roll of film as the knack only comes after 2 or 3 tries!

One shot developer made from a concentrate is a good idea-consistant and avoids storage / mixing issues.

yours
Frank

 

[reub2000]

One shot developer made from a concentrate is a good idea-consistant and avoids storage / mixing issues.

You mean like rodinal or hc-110? What about fixer?

Also, what's the difference between regular fixer and rapid fixer?

Is something like this a good idea for storing mixed developer and fixer?

What about thermometer. This one looks nice because the reading is right on the top. Is the kodak one worth the extra money?

It is worth practicing in the light with a dummy roll of film as the knack only comes after 2 or 3 tries!

I already have experience with this stuff at my high school. Right now I'm building something to use over winter vacation, and so I can try some developers that they don't have at my school.

 

[fpjohn]

Hello:

Rodinol and HC110 are good choices-a graduate cylinder or pipette to measure them can be had from a pharmacy. Oxidation is best reduced with glass bottles but plastic is ok for stop and fixer. Rapid fixer has a more soluable form of the fixer - washs out faster. Dial thermometers are easy to read but a bit expensive.Liquid concentrates of fixer are expensive but convenient.


Have fun.
Frank

 

[srs5694]

You mean like rodinal or hc-110? What about fixer?

Fixers are also available as both power (mix it into water yourself) and liquid (dilute at time of use), and the liquids are a bit easier to use. Also, the liquids are generally rapid fixers.

Also, what's the difference between regular fixer and rapid fixer?

The short answer is that rapid fixers work faster.

The long answer is that rapid fixers are generally made from ammonium thiosulfate, whereas regular fixers are made from sodium thiosulfate. The ammonium form fixes more rapidly than the sodium form, but they both do the job (assuming they're used properly). Odors and the potential for nasal irritation differ from one type to the other, depending on ammonium vs. sodium, pH, and probably other factors. If you find one type objectionable in this respect, try another. If you tend to be sensitive to odors or are using a poorly ventilated area as your darkroom, you might want to look for an "odorless" fixer. They might not be completely odorless, but they should be better than at least some others.

Is something like this a good idea for storing mixed developer and fixer?

I prefer glass for developer, and I generally use glass for other items just because I've got a bunch of glass containers on hand. For the most part, I re-use drink bottles -- Snapple, soda, etc. I bought some smaller sizes of Boston rounds, though; it's hard to find glass drink bottles in less than about 300ml capacity.

What about thermometer. This one looks nice because the reading is right on the top. Is the kodak one worth the extra money?

I'm not an expert on thermometers, but I've heard that the dial types can become miscalibrated because the index can get twisted out of position.

Some thermometers are supposed to be more precise and/or accurate than others. You'll probably be OK with just about anything sold by a photo retailer for B&W processing, but if you intend to process color film, you might want one of the more precise ones, since color's a bit more finicky about temperature than B&W.

 

[reub2000]

Here's what I got in my shopping cart:
Arista Stainless Steel Tank 16 oz. with PVC Top - Model# 91216
Kodak HC110 Film Developer Concentrate to make 2 Gallons - Model# 1408988
Hewes Tundra 35mm Pro Stainless Steel Reel - Model# 140135 x2
Agfa Rodinal 17 oz. - Model# 9720
Arista Stainless Steel Tank 8 oz. with PVC Top - Model# 91801
Kodak Rapid Fixer to Make 1 Gallon - Model# 1464106
Arista Film Cartridge Opener - Model# 116060
Kodak Photo Flo 200 16 oz. - Model# 1464510
Arista Stirring Paddle Set of 2 - Model# 5131
Delta FILTER FUNNEL 16OZ - Model# 025000
Legacy Pro 6 inch Glass Thermometer - Model# 62010
Delta Datatainer 1 GAL (128OZ) - Model# 011280
A bunch of film

Anything in there that I don't need? Am I missing anything?

 

[Ole]

Here's what I got in my shopping cart:
Arista Stainless Steel Tank 16 oz. with PVC Top - Model# 91216
Kodak HC110 Film Developer Concentrate to make 2 Gallons - Model# 1408988
Hewes Tundra 35mm Pro Stainless Steel Reel - Model# 140135 x2
Agfa Rodinal 17 oz. - Model# 9720
Arista Stainless Steel Tank 8 oz. with PVC Top - Model# 91801
Kodak Rapid Fixer to Make 1 Gallon - Model# 1464106
Arista Film Cartridge Opener - Model# 116060
Kodak Photo Flo 200 16 oz. - Model# 1464510
Arista Stirring Paddle Set of 2 - Model# 5131
Delta FILTER FUNNEL 16OZ - Model# 025000
Legacy Pro 6 inch Glass Thermometer - Model# 62010
Delta Datatainer 1 GAL (128OZ) - Model# 011280
A bunch of film

Anything in there that I don't need? Am I missing anything?

Let's see...

Do you need two tanks right away? I readily admit that I have five, but I lasted 20 years before getting my second...

You've got both HC110 and Rodinal there - one of them is enough. Having two developers to choose from is nice if there are significant differences between them. In this case the major difference is that Rodinal gives lower effective film speed. Stick with HC110.

"Film Cartridge Opener" - That's a fancy name for a bottle cap opener. You don't need it. You don't even need to open the cartridges, just cut the film at the end. If you do need to open the cartridge; use a bottle opener, or slam the "sticking-out" end of the pool HARD down on a flat surface. The other end flies off, and the cartridge is open!

"Filter Funnel" - I've only ever used mine for some aging gold toner that was getting seriously gunky. If your water is so bad that one of these helps, you'll need to but bottled water anyway!

 

[reub2000]

"Filter Funnel" - I've only ever used mine for some aging gold toner that was getting seriously gunky. If your water is so bad that one of these helps, you'll need to but bottled water anyway!

Wait, that isn't for pouring used fixer back into the bottle?

 

[Ole]

Ah.

I use wide-mouthed bottles, so I haven't needed a funnel for that. Haven't had any problems with gunk in the fixer either, in 35 years of developing film...

 

[reub2000]

You've got both HC110 and Rodinal there - one of them is enough. Having two developers to choose from is nice if there are significant differences between them. In this case the major difference is that Rodinal gives lower effective film speed. Stick with HC110.

My understanding is that Rodinal is an acutance developer and that HC-110 is a fine grain developer.

"Film Cartridge Opener" - That's a fancy name for a bottle cap opener. You don't need it. You don't even need to open the cartridges, just cut the film at the end. If you do need to open the cartridge; use a bottle opener, or slam the "sticking-out" end of the pool HARD down on a flat surface. The other end flies off, and the cartridge is open!

I like that technique!

 

[Ole]

Wheter a developer is "fine-grain" or "acutance" depends on several things, one important factor is dilution. At the higher dilution HC-110 gives almost as much acutance as Rodinal, without the accompanying speed loss.

IMO (this could set off a religious war) there are many developers that are better than Rodinal for high acutance, like FX-2 or "Beutler's". The main advantage of Rodinal is the convenience of a highly concentrated developer with very long shelf life. After I got hold of some liters of Ilfotec HC very cheap I doubt I'll ever finish my bottle of Rodinal...

 

[reub2000]

Wheter a developer is "fine-grain" or "acutance" depends on several things, one important factor is dilution. At the higher dilution HC-110 gives almost as much acutance as Rodinal, without the accompanying speed loss.

IMO (this could set off a religious war) there are many developers that are better than Rodinal for high acutance, like FX-2 or "Beutler's". The main advantage of Rodinal is the convenience of a highly concentrated developer with very long shelf life. After I got hold of some liters of Ilfotec HC very cheap I doubt I'll ever finish my bottle of Rodinal...

What films are you doing this with? I'm plan on trying an acutance developer with films like Pan F Plus and Delta 100.

 

[Ole]

I use mostly FP4+, with some APX100, Efke 25, HP5+, Delta 100, and Maco/Rollei IR 820/400...

I've only done stand developing with FP4+ and APX100, but they're both great in half-strength FX-2 for 90 minutes with agitation the first minute and again after half an hour.

 

[reub2000]

I'm not at the point of mixing my own developer yet.

 

[Ole]

There's "TFX-2" from Photographer's Formulary for those who don't mix their own...