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Ferrania Superpanchro S.2 and P.3 - help needed

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thewrongdevice

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Hi,

can anyone help me with any info on these films? I bought 5-5 meters of them, apparently refills. What I could deduct based on the labels and the boxes are the following.

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- SUPERPANCHRO means that they are sensitive for more-or-less the whole color spectrum. - Expired in the beginning of 1952. That was 65 years ago. So they must been manufactured around the end of ’40s.
- P.3 is fine grain – if GRANA FINA means that. This means that it is most probably less sensitive than S.2.
- Each is 5 meter long.
- According to Google Translate, they have numbered frames and they are cut to 36 frame pieces.
- Probably motion picture films for test shots. (They have emulsion ID and the ordinary S.2 had no such thing on the label.)

Sensitivity: I had to do some readings on this subject as I didn't know much on how they measured film speed in the '40s. Here is what I've found.
In the end of the '40s the DIN system was in use in Europe. DIN sensitivity was usually written as a degree (same notation as temperature). But in the beginning of its application, the N/10 form was also used. So 21/10 and 17/10 mean DIN sensitivity on the labels.
DIN->ASA conversion table says that 21 DIN = 100 ASA and 17 DIN = 40 ASA. There was a revision of the DIN and ASA standards around 1960. They simply doubled the indicated film speed on the boxes. 100 ASA became 200 and 40 ASA became ISO 80. So we can say, that the ISO sensitivity of these emulsions at the time of their production was:


ISO 200 for the S.2 and ISO 80 for the P.3


But 65 years passed by and these sensitivities decreased over time. We can use the thumb rule of halving speed with every 10 years. The estimated sensitivities of these films are:


ISO 2 for the S.2
ISO 1 for the P.3

Any comment on the above? Does anybody have any info on these films? I wrote to the recently resurrected Ferrania factory but they were not able to help.

Thanks a lot!
 

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AgX

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- SUPERPANCHRO means that they are sensitive for more-or-less the whole color spectrum.

Today superpanchromatic typically means a film with extended red sensitivity, beyond human vision. Though not yet a IR-film.

Back then though superpanchromatic meant a film with higher (not extended) red-sensitivity, compared with panchromatic films


In general, over time the the spectral sensitivities of films even within the same range (ortho- pabchro- etc.) differed quite a lot.
 

ME Super

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Send a PM to Dave Bias (user name is FILM Ferrania). If he doesn't know, the guys at the factory in Italy probably do.
 

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Is this film for display only? If not , why don't you test it and let us know the results.
 

FILM Ferrania

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Hello,

While we have inherited the knowledge base of the old Ferrania company, this data is currently in a number of outdated formats and our founder (who also happens to be a collector of vintage computers and a software engineer) has every confidence that we will eventually migrate years upon years of data into a modern system that is quickly accessible.

It is my understanding that most of this information is from the 3M era (1964-1999) up to 2010 - and that only a small portion of our data is pre-3M.

So it is quite possible that the info you have collected above is all the information that exists...

If I'm able to uncover something more, I'll post it here.
 
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thewrongdevice

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Thanks for the replies. I opened the S.2 today and did some test shots to verify estimated sensitivity. (I felt embarrassed opening a virtually new canister from the '40s. Like doing something immoral.)
Now I have to develop it. Any idea on times? I have DD-X and Rodinal at home. After thorough research, I found a Polly Developing Tank instruction book with development times for these films in Azol, Universal M.Q, Developer 468, M.Q. Pactum, Johnson FIne Grain developer, Unitol, Meritol-Metol and Johnson Super Fine Grain Developer, An other interesting document about Tabloid developers gave me times for Rytol, Tabloid Fine Grain developer, Tabloid M.Q, and Tabloid Amidol.

Any idea how long should I develop it in DD-X or Rodinal?
 
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thewrongdevice

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Seems to be like an investigation. What I've found so far is a Polly Development Tank Instruction Book and a document on Tabloid developers. Both contain times for the S.2 and the P.3 but the chemicals they refer to don't exist anymore. Both documents put the films into film groups and give times for these groups.

Ferrania S.2 is in group 5 with Adox R.21, Agfa Isopan I.S.S, Ilford HP3 P, Kodak Plus X and Kodak Verichrome RF. Ilford FP3 is in group 4, Ilford HP3 CF&RF is in group 6. Group 5 times are between them. (These are more than 60 year old emulsions, they are certainly not the same as we use today under similar name. But still, they can give some reference points at least.)


Rodinal sheet says 6 min for Kodak Plus X in 1:25 and 8 min for FP4+/HP5+. DDX sheet says 10 min for FP4+, 9 min for HP5+ and 6 min for Kodak Plus X.


Based on the above, a 6-8 min. development time seems to be right for the Ferrania S.2 in Ilford DD-X at 20° Celsius.
 

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thewrongdevice

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Next try. I've developed this one according to Kodak Plus X times: 4:50 @ 23°C. Ilford DD-X of course. Still overdeveloped. Here is the result compared to a properly developed Fortepan 400:
the ferrania project #4 by Laszlo Gerencser, on Flickr

The result is better than the previous one but still needs some experimenting. (Mobile shot of the neg through a plastic magnifying lens.)
the ferrania project #3 by Laszlo Gerencser, on Flickr
 

Paul Howell

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The film is badly fogged, look at the edge, ought be clear, HC 110 has always been my choice for very old film. At 60 plus years may not be salvageable.
 
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thewrongdevice

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True, fogged but I didn't expect perfect result from such an old film. I'm happy with what I got - to be honest I expected worse image quality. I have no HC 100 at home but I'm planning to try Rodinal on it.
 
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thewrongdevice

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madgardener

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I like those photos, that looks like it could be some really nice film. While I would like to ask Ferrania for some, they currently have their hands full with trying to get a modern emulsion started with everything that seems to be going wrong.
 
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thewrongdevice

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They don't have this film anymore. They don't even know what it is. No inventory about such old things.
I hope they will make it and finally come up with that color film they are working on. Would be nice to see the revival of that historical factory.
 
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