Ferrania P30 production

[cmacd123]

Hopefully those nasty people have been "dealt" with and are no longer here.

the ferrannia folks seem to be using Facebook. Mr. Bias just posted a comment on someone's post this morning in the P30 Users group.

 

[Mackinaw]

the ferrannia folks seem to be using Facebook. Mr. Bias just posted a comment on someone's post this morning in the P30 Users group.

I just noticed that. On one of his posts, he gave a very detailed description on the use of the QR code.

Jim B.

 

[Scott Micciche]

the ferrannia folks seem to be using Facebook. Mr. Bias just posted a comment on someone's post this morning in the P30 Users group.

It is an active group with lots of information and photo sharing, yes.

 

[sr44]

Regarding rewards....Film Ferrania have stated many times that colour film rewards can be converted to credits for their web shop.

To be fair, that never actually happened. They made a big statement about it over two years ago, but even their own website states that the timeline for dispersing the credits has not even been announced. It's been radio silence with communication to backers since July 2020.

As a backer, I don't really hold it against them too much at this point. I've followed the project closely enough over the years to see all of the setbacks they've had to deal with, many of which were really just a perfect storm of poor luck that couldn't have been predicted. I really hope that they do find some stability though, and maybe someday can try to reach the original goal of color film production. I think we all still really do want to see a dedicated smaller company produce color film in a way that can be the right scale for the modern world.

 

[cmacd123]

FWIW, I got the P30 I ordered from Freestyle today.
film was in a Ferrania Plastic can, (just like the Arista Color and Zellers film used to come in) and in a DX coded cassette with silver coloured end caps. (wonder if they had the same problems getting end cap steel as Kodak did)

the rolls all have the production code sticker (for example 00000DD7) which give the information as: (look WAY down, the photrio website seems to have added some space)

Unique ID#	00000dd7
Film Type	FERRANIA P30-135
PRODUCTION INFO
Batch	168
Pancake	B4
Production Date	27/06/2022

so this is "Hot off the press" as such things go.

(kodak and Fuji both use a unique serial number for every roll, presented as a latent image near the start of the roll, but they don't offer a way of using it to find out more about your roll of film.)

I wonder if the code can or will be put in the edge print on Ferrania film?

Anyway, it seems real and hopefully getting the 120 machine up and running will be a simpler task for them.

 

[cmacd123]

To be fair, that never actually happened. They made a big statement about it over two years ago, but even their own website states that the timeline for dispersing the credits has not even been announced. It's been radio silence with communication to backers since July 2020.

I understand that they were going to offer the credits as their web shop could accommodate orders, and then they found that the P30 finished by a third party was losing money because of wasted film junked as defective because f the loading. The Shopify patform apperently will allow the credits to happen as they can manually enter them.

the new attempt is offloading the actual selling and delivery to Freestyle and a UK dealer. The shopify store is suposed to get back running in the fall.

 

[MattKing]

(look WAY down, the photrio website seems to have added some space)

A reminder to @Sean - this glitch with the table function is still mis-behaving.

 

[Agulliver]

Usually.... on the Shanghai GP100 220 thread there were some users who arbitrarily insisted on ignoring the ISO 100 rating, claimed the real rating was ISO 25, shot it at that and posted their completely blown out results. Even though people who rated the film at 100 were getting excellent results.

My take on it is first do what the mfsg suggests as they are the ones that make the product. Then if you're not satisfied change as seen fit.

We have a lot of members who enjoy experimenting, which is generally great as it provides data which is useful when one wants to try doing something different.

But it also occasionally leads to someone getting angry when shooting 3 stops under or over the ISO, semi stand developing in bath salts or some other weird concoction...and doesn't get perfect results.

Having shot a few rolls I will say that for me P30 works best at 50ASA/ISO....and it is quite picky with your developing regimen. But what works for me and my eyes isn't that far off the "best practises" document so I am sure it's quite possible to get great results at 80ASA with D96, for example.

 

[cmacd123]

I rember one of my great learning events was when one of the photo publications back in the 70s or so published an article on speed and development and had arranged for a series of Negatives to be produced using HP4, and processed in a continuous processor. the scene was a man in a boat by a mill. one could obtain one of these original negatives which were carefully made to be "perfect" as far as the folks at ILFORD were concerned by sending away to the publication (and I think a couple of bucks).

I dutifully sent away and got mine.

I was shocked that the negative I received had FAR less density than any I was producing myself. yet it was fairly easy to get a a full range print

needless to say, my procedures had a going over after that, with much nicer printing as the result.

 

[MattKing]

I rember one of my great learning events was when one of the photo publications back in the 70s or so published an article on speed and development and had arranged for a series of Negatives to be produced using HP4, and processed in a continuous processor. the scene was a man in a boat by a mill. one could obtain one of these original negatives which were carefully made to be "perfect" as far as the folks at ILFORD were concerned by sending away to the publication (and I think a couple of bucks).

I dutifully sent away and got mine.

I was shocked that the negative I received had FAR less density than any I was producing myself. yet it was fairly easy to get a a full range print

needless to say, my procedures had a going over after that, with much nicer printing as the result.

My experience has been that many people who are new to developing film expect a negative that looks dense and contrasty to the naked eye - as if the negative was the final product.
In order to get that, they tend to over-develop film.
And then, when they encounter the difficulties with printing (or scanning) that over-developed film, they try to compensate by reducing exposure.
The result: under-exposed and over-developed negatives.
Not everyone of course, but a fair few.
There is a scene in the American Experience biography of Dorothea Lange where she holds up a 4x5 negative and asks something to the effect of "Isn't this a beautiful negative?". I'd like to have that shared experience with a lot of different photographers.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

My experience has been that many people who are new to developing film expect a negative that looks dense and contrasty to the naked eye - as if the negative was the final product.
In order to get that, they tend to over-develop film.
And then, when they encounter the difficulties with printing (or scanning) that over-developed film, they try to compensate by reducing exposure.
The result: under-exposed and over-developed negatives.
Not everyone of course, but a fair few.
There is a scene in the American Experience biography of Dorothea Lange where she holds up a 4x5 negative and asks something to the effect of "Isn't this a beautiful negative?". I'd like to have that shared experience with a lot of different photographers.

As we all know, Ansel Adams was finally convinced that photography was for him, after Paul Strand showed him some of his negatives.

 

[flavio81]

My experience has been that many people who are new to developing film expect a negative that looks dense and contrasty to the naked eye - as if the negative was the final product.
In order to get that, they tend to over-develop film.
And then, when they encounter the difficulties with printing (or scanning) that over-developed film, they try to compensate by reducing exposure.
The result: under-exposed and over-developed negatives.
Not everyone of course, but a fair few.
There is a scene in the American Experience biography of Dorothea Lange where she holds up a 4x5 negative and asks something to the effect of "Isn't this a beautiful negative?". I'd like to have that shared experience with a lot of different photographers.

This is a great post, food for thought.

Thanks

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

My experience has been that many people who are new to developing film expect a negative that looks dense and contrasty to the naked eye - as if the negative was the final product.
In order to get that, they tend to over-develop film.
And then, when they encounter the difficulties with printing (or scanning) that over-developed film, they try to compensate by reducing exposure.
The result: under-exposed and over-developed negatives.

Wouldn't it be a great help to the new if there were a thread titled 'Post your landscape photos with negatives' (or architecture or winter scene or woodlands etc.) and the more experienced members of the forum participated in it and shared pics of their negatives? Who doesn't like seeing the negatives?

 

[MattKing]

That is a great video excerpt - thanks for posting it.

 

[foc]

I have found the following the best sources (for me) regarding B&W film development.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/common-processing-problems/

https://www.olympus-lifescience.com...e/primer/photomicrography/bwprocessingerrors/

https://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/userfiles/file/faultsonblackandwhitenegatives.pdf

 

[pentaxuser]

That is a great video excerpt - thanks for posting it.

Yes, I enjoyed it as well. Looking at his negatives my initial response, even after 17 years of processing was that there was a bland greyness there( despite some being stained negatives ) It's the wrong response of course but I do wonder if there isn't something built in to the psyche that tells the brain that negatives need to be more black and white giving them a false "punchiness"

It may help to explain why a lot of people prefer more contrasty films. There remains the perennial argument that Tri-X may not do shadows as well as HP5+ but more than make up for this by producing more punchy negs and less bland prints. It may also explain why JCH films which are ex-traffic surveillance films and high contrast are highly rated by new film users who are willing to pay quite a "premium" for what appears to be a poorer rendition of the scene to my eyes. It is almost as if the feeling is that if you are going to use b&w then it had better be "real b&w. "Wishywashy" just doesn't cut it

pentaxuser

 

[Nzoomed]

Can you say who this person is. He would appear to be someone important to Ferrania for it to pick up a phone /send an e-mail to tell him that it is back in stock. Does he say who has the stock?

It looks as if he had never tried the film before Ferrania sent him 2 rolls and it is from those 2 rolls that he is hooked - in spades as the saying goes So yes however they found him he seems to have been a good choice to send the film to and entrust Ferrania's communication about the film being back in stock and now produced entirely "in house"

Maybe Ferrania believes he is a better vehicle for its announcements than Photrio? He is certainly a salesman for it

The picture of his wife looks vaguely familiar. Is this the figital revolution person?.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Film ferrania is definitely back with production of P30.
I've been in contact with them earlier and they told me they were not far away from shipping new films out.
So going by these posts, I would believe this is legit.
They also have been posting more stuff on social media. There is a post of someone using P30 on a volcano for instance.

 

[cmacd123]

I've been in contact with them earlier and they told me they were not far away from shipping new films out.

My small order of P30 from Freestyle had arrived and the Bar code number did show a June Production date. It came in a ferrania plastic can. (which are distinctive) so I belive that when I get a chance to try it, It will be the real deal.

 

[Agulliver]

I bought some about this time last year when the previous batch was released. I believe they now reckon that the film currently in circulation will last until they reach full production next month or October.

I've shot a couple of the rolls I bought last year, during the summer of 2022. Definitely not an every day film for me but it has a place in my bag.

 

[bunip]

I was courious about what was going on in Cairo Montenotte so wrote an update request on ferrania’s website. Got this answer:

Hello Paolo,

My name is Dave Bias, the one American on the FILM Ferrania team.
I have pasted below the piece we wrote for those who are most curious. Please accept our apologies that it has not been translated into Italian.

All the best to you,
Dave Bias

Status Report 2022
Like just about every other company in the world, the pandemic seriously affected us. We made a decision, early on, to stay quiet in public (due to the overwhelming chaos) and instead focus all attention on making our film 100% in-house.
The film itself was/is always made by us, of course, but in the past, we used third-parties for many aspects of the finishing process ("converting" is the actual word). This ultimately proved to be unsustainable - which is also probably very obvious to most of our community.
First on our list of necessary upgrades was our fully automated 35mm converting line. This is the series of machines that take long spools of freshly coated film in one end (“pancakes” they are called), and at the other end, we receive rolls of film ready to put into a camera. These machines perforate the film and imprint our signature along the edge. The film is then cut to length and placed on a spool. The spool is wrapped by a cartridge, with the felt pre-applied. Caps are added and the finished roll is ready to move on to packaging.
Initially, we expected this process to go smoothly and relatively quickly. The machines were in excellent condition, and we were able to rescue the complete works from the old factory, with no essential bits missing. We reasonably expected to clean them up and restart them. But upon further inspection, we had the realization that getting a complex set of machines to do exactly the same thing - every time, and all the time - is mind-numbingly difficult and time consuming. Especially when those machines have been sitting unused for more than 15 years.
Starting in 2021, we hired contractors (when we were able to find them) for the various tasks at hand. Electricians, mechanical engineers, and most importantly a programmer to re-write the control software for a modern computer. The original system ran on a Windows 95 PC and could not be "upgraded" in the traditional sense - we needed an entirely new hardware control system.
A few months ago, we arrived at a point where the first finished rolls emerged from the converting line, and there was much rejoicing. Since then, we have been able to get the line to run uninterrupted for small periods of time, but some minor flaw eventually presents itself and we have to stop the machines and apply whatever necessary fixes/tweaks are needed to dial it in.
We have been iterating like this for a couple of months now, and there is more yet to do before we can resume full-time production. But we are so very close, and we are relatively certain that production will resume this fall.
And as a side effect, we have produced just over 4000 rolls of perfectly good P30 film, which is now available.
This is clearly just the first production line on our list. 120 will be next, although it's quite impossible to forecast a date at this point. 4x5 after that, etc... Each new format is a major internal project requiring teams of people to get a room ready for the equipment (plumbing, electric, HVAC, etc) and will take time.
In fact, we are done trying to make predictions about the future. These internal projects all have urgency, but the simple fact is that, from now on, we will remain focused on what we DO have, instead of what we MIGHT have in the future.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Good news! I would like to try this stuff in 120 for sure, and whenever 4x5 will be ready... not in a hurry, though.

 

[warden]

I was courious about what was going on in Cairo Montenotte so wrote an update request on ferrania’s website. Got this answer:

Hello Paolo,

My name is Dave Bias, the one American on the FILM Ferrania team.
I have pasted below the piece we wrote for those who are most curious. Please accept our apologies that it has not been translated into Italian.

All the best to you,
Dave Bias

Status Report 2022
Like just about every other company in the world, the pandemic seriously affected us. We made a decision, early on, to stay quiet in public (due to the overwhelming chaos) and instead focus all attention on making our film 100% in-house.
The film itself was/is always made by us, of course, but in the past, we used third-parties for many aspects of the finishing process ("converting" is the actual word). This ultimately proved to be unsustainable - which is also probably very obvious to most of our community.
First on our list of necessary upgrades was our fully automated 35mm converting line. This is the series of machines that take long spools of freshly coated film in one end (“pancakes” they are called), and at the other end, we receive rolls of film ready to put into a camera. These machines perforate the film and imprint our signature along the edge. The film is then cut to length and placed on a spool. The spool is wrapped by a cartridge, with the felt pre-applied. Caps are added and the finished roll is ready to move on to packaging.
Initially, we expected this process to go smoothly and relatively quickly. The machines were in excellent condition, and we were able to rescue the complete works from the old factory, with no essential bits missing. We reasonably expected to clean them up and restart them. But upon further inspection, we had the realization that getting a complex set of machines to do exactly the same thing - every time, and all the time - is mind-numbingly difficult and time consuming. Especially when those machines have been sitting unused for more than 15 years.
Starting in 2021, we hired contractors (when we were able to find them) for the various tasks at hand. Electricians, mechanical engineers, and most importantly a programmer to re-write the control software for a modern computer. The original system ran on a Windows 95 PC and could not be "upgraded" in the traditional sense - we needed an entirely new hardware control system.
A few months ago, we arrived at a point where the first finished rolls emerged from the converting line, and there was much rejoicing. Since then, we have been able to get the line to run uninterrupted for small periods of time, but some minor flaw eventually presents itself and we have to stop the machines and apply whatever necessary fixes/tweaks are needed to dial it in.
We have been iterating like this for a couple of months now, and there is more yet to do before we can resume full-time production. But we are so very close, and we are relatively certain that production will resume this fall.
And as a side effect, we have produced just over 4000 rolls of perfectly good P30 film, which is now available.
This is clearly just the first production line on our list. 120 will be next, although it's quite impossible to forecast a date at this point. 4x5 after that, etc... Each new format is a major internal project requiring teams of people to get a room ready for the equipment (plumbing, electric, HVAC, etc) and will take time.
In fact, we are done trying to make predictions about the future. These internal projects all have urgency, but the simple fact is that, from now on, we will remain focused on what we DO have, instead of what we MIGHT have in the future.

Thanks Paolo. I appreciate you sharing this update! It does seem Ferrania are making good progress in their own time. What an adventure they've had.

 

[Tel]

Good news! I would like to try this stuff in 120 for sure, and whenever 4x5 will be ready... not in a hurry, though.

Ditto that; they're still with us and still working. In this world, that in itself is worth celebrating (but 4x5 will be nice too!).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ditto that; they're still with us and still working. In this world, that in itself is worth celebrating (but 4x5 will be nice too!).

I would prefer working with 4x5 as each sheet can be individually played with. Who knows... we might even get to see it in 8x10!

 

[Fortepun]

I was courious about what was going on in Cairo Montenotte so wrote an update request on ferrania’s website. Got this answer:

Hello Paolo,

My name is Dave Bias, the one American on the FILM Ferrania team.
I have pasted below the piece we wrote for those who are most curious. Please accept our apologies that it has not been translated into Italian.

All the best to you,
Dave Bias

Status Report 2022
Like just about every other company in the world, the pandemic seriously affected us. We made a decision, early on, to stay quiet in public (due to the overwhelming chaos) and instead focus all attention on making our film 100% in-house.
The film itself was/is always made by us, of course, but in the past, we used third-parties for many aspects of the finishing process ("converting" is the actual word). This ultimately proved to be unsustainable - which is also probably very obvious to most of our community.
First on our list of necessary upgrades was our fully automated 35mm converting line. This is the series of machines that take long spools of freshly coated film in one end (“pancakes” they are called), and at the other end, we receive rolls of film ready to put into a camera. These machines perforate the film and imprint our signature along the edge. The film is then cut to length and placed on a spool. The spool is wrapped by a cartridge, with the felt pre-applied. Caps are added and the finished roll is ready to move on to packaging.
Initially, we expected this process to go smoothly and relatively quickly. The machines were in excellent condition, and we were able to rescue the complete works from the old factory, with no essential bits missing. We reasonably expected to clean them up and restart them. But upon further inspection, we had the realization that getting a complex set of machines to do exactly the same thing - every time, and all the time - is mind-numbingly difficult and time consuming. Especially when those machines have been sitting unused for more than 15 years.
Starting in 2021, we hired contractors (when we were able to find them) for the various tasks at hand. Electricians, mechanical engineers, and most importantly a programmer to re-write the control software for a modern computer. The original system ran on a Windows 95 PC and could not be "upgraded" in the traditional sense - we needed an entirely new hardware control system.
A few months ago, we arrived at a point where the first finished rolls emerged from the converting line, and there was much rejoicing. Since then, we have been able to get the line to run uninterrupted for small periods of time, but some minor flaw eventually presents itself and we have to stop the machines and apply whatever necessary fixes/tweaks are needed to dial it in.
We have been iterating like this for a couple of months now, and there is more yet to do before we can resume full-time production. But we are so very close, and we are relatively certain that production will resume this fall.
And as a side effect, we have produced just over 4000 rolls of perfectly good P30 film, which is now available.
This is clearly just the first production line on our list. 120 will be next, although it's quite impossible to forecast a date at this point. 4x5 after that, etc... Each new format is a major internal project requiring teams of people to get a room ready for the equipment (plumbing, electric, HVAC, etc) and will take time.
In fact, we are done trying to make predictions about the future. These internal projects all have urgency, but the simple fact is that, from now on, we will remain focused on what we DO have, instead of what we MIGHT have in the future.

Thank you!