Fed Up With JOBO!

AgX · May 23, 2022

Concerning moisture and the reel materials, I got puzzled by that statement by Jobo. Well, they were peculiar on several occasions, I am not even sure about their wording being apt and I did not even expect any difference between plastics.

But maybe someone with serious reel loading issues and the chance to use 1000/2000 reels as an alternative can tell.

TunkuFawzy · Jun 23, 2022

Hi all, this is an informative thread. I now use three different types of tanks.

1. Lab Box - Not had any loading issues with 135 but I wasted two rolls of 120 format Fuji 400H as the film refused to enter the designated cassette.

Likes for me. 135 reels in very well, built in cutter is good.
Dislikes: Uses too much chemicals at 490ml even for 135, and of course my bad experiences with 120.

2. Jobo 1520 I went back to my old Jobo 1520 for the 120 format and while leaked a little but not like a sieve, I had no trouble loading on to the reel. However, I did take a look at the reel itself to see if there were kinks or bits of plastic sticking out.

For this I use a dark bag.

Likes for me: loads both formats easily. Economical with chemicals.
Dislikes: Leaky at time, especially a pain when processing C41 with Blix all over the surface (easily solved by placing a plastic container to catch the droplets).

3. Paterson tanks: I bought one paterson a couple of weeks ago and tried to load a roll of 120 format Kodak BW400CN. I tried for two hours. Swapped out the reel for the other reel, and eventually gave up. I managed to transfer that roll on to the Jobo, with two tanks in the bag. That went on ok.

Needless to say it was in a dark bag, and the temperature in Malaya being extremely high and humid, it was a right mess. I managed

I should have also checked the paterson reel as I found both the reels had some protrusions on both the upper and lower groves that will sometimes prevent the film from advancing.

I will be trying out one (1) paterson reel without the ball bearings and will also use a pencil to coat the groves on all the reels.

In my frustration, and I can imagine the others being equally frustrated, I have decided to have a crack at getting two SS reels (135 and 120) from Hewes that can be mated with the paterson / jobo tank and see how that gets on.

Pieter12 · Jun 24, 2022

TunkuFawzy said:
Hi all, this is an informative thread. I now use three different types of tanks.

1. Lab Box - Not had any loading issues with 135 but I wasted two rolls of 120 format Fuji 400H as the film refused to enter the designated cassette.

Likes for me. 135 reels in very well, built in cutter is good.
Dislikes: Uses too much chemicals at 490ml even for 135, and of course my bad experiences with 120.

2. Jobo 1520 I went back to my old Jobo 1520 for the 120 format and while leaked a little but not like a sieve, I had no trouble loading on to the reel. However, I did take a look at the reel itself to see if there were kinks or bits of plastic sticking out.

For this I use a dark bag.

Likes for me: loads both formats easily. Economical with chemicals.
Dislikes: Leaky at time, especially a pain when processing C41 with Blix all over the surface (easily solved by placing a plastic container to catch the droplets).

3. Paterson tanks: I bought one paterson a couple of weeks ago and tried to load a roll of 120 format Kodak BW400CN. I tried for two hours. Swapped out the reel for the other reel, and eventually gave up. I managed to transfer that roll on to the Jobo, with two tanks in the bag. That went on ok.

Needless to say it was in a dark bag, and the temperature in Malaya being extremely high and humid, it was a right mess. I managed

I should have also checked the paterson reel as I found both the reels had some protrusions on both the upper and lower groves that will sometimes prevent the film from advancing.

I will be trying out one (1) paterson reel without the ball bearings and will also use a pencil to coat the groves on all the reels.

In my frustration, and I can imagine the others being equally frustrated, I have decided to have a crack at getting two SS reels (135 and 120) from Hewes that can be mated with the paterson / jobo tank and see how that gets on.

I always check to make sure the ball bearings move freely on Paterson reels. A nudge with a pencil tip usually frees them up. That said, I find them much easier to load than the Jobo reels.

AgX · Jun 24, 2022

TunkuFawzy said:
2. Jobo 1520 I went back to my old Jobo 1520 for the 120 format and while leaked a little but not like a sieve...

Always check that the locking ring is at its arrest all around. If this does not help, check the pot part of the tank. If this is fine, substitute the lid (the part with seal and locking ring).

TunkuFawzy · Jun 24, 2022

Pieter12 said:
I always check to make sure the ball bearings move freely on Paterson reels. A nudge with a pencil tip usually frees them up. That said, I find them much easier to load than the Jobo reels.

Thanks for that.

TunkuFawzy · Jun 24, 2022

AgX said:
Always check that the arresting ring is at its arrest all around. If this does not help, check the pot part of the tank. If this is fine, substitute the lid (the part with seal and locking ring).

Thanks.

AgX · Jun 24, 2022

If one has several series 1500 tanks, one typically has several lids. But as amateur one only needs one lid at a time. Thus if there is a leakage issue , one could go only with the one that seals best.
But the lid is available as spare.

kl122002 · Jun 25, 2022

I have a few Paterson tanks and a Jobo 1520 tank just bought from ebay recently.

Paterson tanks is actually fine especially the reel haven't changed much since 1970s (or earlier?) . Loading 120 film on this reel needs practice and I notice the manual no longer carry the detailed loading instruction. There are lots of ideas from youtubers but I still recommend to check out the earlier tank models manual from Photographic Memorabilia (https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Paterson/Developing_Tanks.html). From the older manuals it tells you how to hold the film and the reel. There is a photo showing you how and it really does not need to roll the film out from the paper at the beginning .

Paterson reel can hold 2 rolls 120 films. After loading the first roll, my middle finder pushes the film slowly to inwards while keep twisting the reels. When the film has reached the end of the inner groves it would stop advance further. Then I simply load the second roll 120 just like normal . Load the tank full with developer that could over the reel top and process them just like usual.

While on the other side , the Jobo 1520 is quite similar to Paterson. Since I have been using Paterson for years so I actually have no difficulties. I like the cover and the cap that really seal. And overall the tank is quite handy when it compare to the current Paterson Super System 4 with big cover.

Agulliver · Jun 26, 2022

LOL in 36 years of developing film I had my first problem with loading 120 onto a Jobo siparl just last week.

Somehow I loaded the backing paper and not the film. I've *never* done this before and they feel so different. But this time, I did it. Luckily the backing paper being longer, did not fit onto the reel and I eventually realised what I had done and was able to unload the paper and load the film.

Just shows even someone who's been doing this a long time can make a howler.

kl122002 · Jun 26, 2022

Agulliver said:
LOL in 36 years of developing film I had my first problem with loading 120 onto a Jobo siparl just last week.

Somehow I loaded the backing paper and not the film. I've *never* done this before and they feel so different. But this time, I did it. Luckily the backing paper being longer, did not fit onto the reel and I eventually realised what I had done and was able to unload the paper and load the film.

Just shows even someone who's been doing this a long time can make a howler.

You are not alone

Wallendo · Jun 26, 2022

I find these threads interesting. It seems that users have vastly different experiences with different tanks. I guess that is why so many options are still available.

I own all three systems. I load all three in a changing bag.
I have a JOBO tank to use with a rotary processor. It can be a little more finicky to load at first, but after trimming the corners works well. Even when the reels are damp. I have no leakage issues.
I have Hewes brand metal reels and a steel tank as a backup. 35mm loads easily for me. 120 is a little more challenging. I have minor leakage. Moisture has no effect with these reels. There is routine slight leakage.
I also have Patterson brand reels and tanks that a use primarily for 120. The tanks can be used with my rotary processor, but I usually develop by inversion agitation. This tank leaks more than the others. I also don't have issues with damp tanks.
The advantage of having multiple systems is that in the rare event I cannot load a film in one system, I have two back-ups.

Possibly my experience is influenced by the fact that I live in the Southern US, and the air conditioning is on quite often and tends to keep the air dry.

AgX · Jun 26, 2022

Wallendo said:
I find these threads interesting. It seems that users have vastly different experiences with different tanks. I guess that is why so many options are still available.

I own all three systems. I load all three in a changing bag.
I have a JOBO tank to use with a rotary processor.

One of the reasons is that people compare apples to oranges. For instance Jobo made countless tanks. Alone with film-reel tanks apt for rotary processing they got 5 systems...

Tom Taylor · Jun 26, 2022

"I have some 2500 series reels and I have never been able to load a 120 on them either."

Insert the film into the reels two entrance groves and pull it through to about 1/2 way around. Then with index fingers lightly on the forward edges of the roll and thumbs lightly over the top of the entrance groves (to keep the film feeding through the entrance groves) walk it on the reel. The main problem with loading the 2500 reels is that the film pops up and out of the entrance grove and that stops its advance. Keeping the thumbs lightly on the film at the entrance point ensures that doesn't happen and the film pushes through evenly on the reel. The 2500 reels allow for greater chemistry flow on the reels resulting in superior film development.

Thomas

pardesi · Jun 26, 2022

All this reminds me why I haven't used plastic reels for over 20 years.

TunkuFawzy · Jun 30, 2022

Pieter12 said:
I always check to make sure the ball bearings move freely on Paterson reels. A nudge with a pencil tip usually frees them up. That said, I find them much easier to load than the Jobo reels.

Hi, I removed the ball bearings and I coated the groves with pencil lead. It now works fine and I managed to load reel easily.

Best always.

Pieter12 · Jun 30, 2022

TunkuFawzy said:
Hi, I removed the ball bearings and I coated the groves with pencil lead. It now works fine and I managed to load reel easily.

Best always.

Interestingly enough, I find the ball bearings to be the reason I like the Paterson reels. If they move freely, the film loads much faster as the ball bearings enable it to advance on the reel, unlike the JOBO reels where you have to help the film along a bit. What I don't like about the Paterson System 4 is the lid takes time and care to seal every time you change solutions. JOBO's lid is much better for that. But then the JOBO top can be a real pain in the butt to close properly. Nothing's perfect.

markaudacity · Apr 12, 2024

halfaman said:
I have loaded hundreds of 120 rolls with Jobo 1500 system, normally two per reel. It is important to control the lateral displacement of the film in the reel while loading, it can be done very easily with the index fingers of both hands.

This is a thing that doesn't need to be done with Paterson reels, though. There's no reason for Jobo reels to be this hard to load.

Pieter12 · Apr 12, 2024

markaudacity said:
This is a thing that doesn't need to be done with Paterson reels, though. There's no reason for Jobo reels to be this hard to load.

If there's no reason, then why does it seem like many people have problems loading them? Maybe they require a technique that is not intuitive, a method that must acquired. Could it be that their design makes loading them actually hard to master?

ic-racer · Apr 12, 2024

I have been using the Jobo plastic 1500 reels to load two 120 rolls for almost 20 years. Some tips:

Make sure the reels are clean and dry.
Memorize which way you need to twist the reel to get the two start positions aligned.
Insert the factory cut end first. I cut the film off the paper (I don't peel the tape), then spool it in my hands to the other end.
Use the index fingers in the cutout of the reel to keep the film in the middle.
After the first film is in the reel, I push the free end toward the middle. Twist back and forth if needed.
To know when the first film is past the red stopper, engage the stopper and push the free end some more. It should spring back. If it is fixed in position, the red stopper is fouling the film and the film needs to be wound on farther.

Don_ih · Apr 12, 2024

Pieter12 said:
why does it seem like many people have problems loading them?

I think there's a design flaw with the 1500 reels that's not present in the 1000 reels (I have both). The 1500 reels have their "ribs" protruding too far into the track - particularly right behind the place where you can use your thumb and forefinger to feed the film without ratcheting. A sharp corner will invariably get caught at that point. It's truly irritating. I've needed to pull half a roll out of the thing before, just to clip the corners a bit.

logan2z · Apr 12, 2024

Don_ih said:
I've needed to pull half a roll out of the thing before, just to clip the corners a bit.

Maybe I've been lucky, but I've developed many rolls of 120 and 35mm film using Jobo 1500 series reels and have never had issues loading them. I always do cut the corners on 35mm film to avoid any catching/binding, but I've never had any issue loading 120 and don't clip the corners. The Jobo reels are certainly easier to load than steel Hewes reels IME. I've never tried Paterson reels so can't compare the Jobo reels to those.

Augustus Caesar · Apr 12, 2024

Trim the corners of the film ends so that you have a bevelled edge.

45 degrees.

mshchem · Apr 13, 2024

Trimming the corners is a game changer, I use a little hobby corner rounder makes a ever so slight rounded corner. Others here suggested fingernail trimmers.
Don't make it more than a tiny snip or you make things worse as the film will fall in towards the center.

First time I tried loading Jobo reels I was ready to scream, now easy as can be.

ic-racer · Apr 13, 2024

Augustus Caesar said:
Trim the corners of the film ends so that you have a bevelled edge.

45 degrees.

My experience is the opposite. Feeding the factory cut end works better in my hands. It probably depends on the film type, base and how long it has been rolled tightly.

Pioneer · Apr 13, 2024

Well. One thing is for sure. After reading this thread I don't feel nearly as bad about being a totally uncoordinated, fumble fingers who regularly falls over his own feet.

For what it is worth,
1. The single most important thing for me is to make sure I have dry reels. I used to use my wife's hair dryer but I have so many now that I just rotate them.

2. If they do get dirty then they have to be cleaned. Once in awhile I put some of my reels on the top rack of the dishwasher and give them a good cleaning. I really don't do this very often but I probably should. It is amazing how much easier they are to load when they are clean.

3. I quit using a changing bag. I don't even know where mine are anymore. Now I just do it in the bathroom that has no windows. This actually didn't happen until the kids finally moved out. This might be the important thing I have done in recent years. Thinking back I can't remember having any serious problems since I did this.

4. Most of the problems I have now are with Jobo 2500 reels and it has everything to do with getting the 120 aligned so it is going into the reel straight. Otherwise the corners get caught in the reel along the outside edge. These problems usually only occur at the start and once I get the film aligned I usually have no problems. I think this is why some of you clip the corners. I haven't tried that yet but I might the next I load up some 120 film.

I will say that I do not try to load more than one strip of 120 film on a reel. I do know that it will fit from the days of loading 220 but I just haven't tried to learn that particular skill.

The only large format sheets I usually develop in a tank are 4x5 using the Jobo system. I also use some of Stearman Press's tanks like the SP-445 and the SP-810 daylight tank. They work pretty well. For whole plate and 11x14 I just use trays in the bathtub.

I have all kinds of tanks and reels, all plastic, and if I had to point out the biggest single thing I have done to make things easier, it is rotating my reels so they are always dry when I load them. But, since I live in high desert country, I'm sure that is a lot easier me to do than it would for someone in a damper part of out great big wonderful world.

I guess since my developing tank frustrations are now at a low ebb it is time for me to buy some stainless reels so I can start cussing in the darkroom again. "D

Fed Up With JOBO!

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