Faulty Nikon F3 shutter , or is it me ?

I'm just looking for confirmation that it's not just me being an idiot really .
I've just bought my second Nikon F3 off ebay , and they both have ( presumably ) the same fault .

Bottom line is the shutter doesn't fire , and the winder lever doesn't wind the film take up spool on .

I have put new batteries in , voltage is correct and they work just fine in my other cameras .
So that rules out a battery issue .

To explain ;

Whats happening ?
I switch on the camera ( via the lever around the shutter release button ).
The winder moves out a certain distance , lets say 20 degrees , but doesn't advance the the take up spool .
No doubt the lever has been advanced fully and cocked the shutter ready for a shot .
Regardless of if the lever is away from the body as some Nikon's require , or against the body , the shutter does not fire when I press the button .
The LCD panel in the view finder should light up so you can see the metered figures . This doesn't happen .
Also the only thing in its display is m60 .

If i attempt to fire the camera with its mechanical shutter setting ( by moving the lower lever with my right finger down and press the shutter ) , nothing happens .
As I understand it , even without batteries the shutter should still fire at 1/60th sec in the settings .

If I press the shutter release with my finger or a cable release , nothing happens .

If I set the self timer to on and press the shutter button , the light starts to flash in it's countdown , but the shutter does not fire .

I have put the motor drive on it with fully charged batteries in it . This makes no difference .

I can not load film as the winder does not advance . Though no manual focus cameras that I know of won't fire the shutter without film loaded .
I know some/all Canon EOS cameras won't fire with the back open .

So I can't imagine I'm doing anything wrong , but as I've had two cameras behaving the same way , it makes me wonder if I'm missing something , or just unlucky ?

Please advise .

Thanks in advance .

First you download the instruction manual, read through it thoroughly making sure you're not taking something for granted.
https://www.butkus.org/chinon/nikon.htm
A possible cause is the rewind lever stuck in the rewind position. M60 is manual 1/60.

When you open the back - as if to put a new roll of film in, then close it, the shutter speed should display M80 or 80 - not M60. Can you confirm?
At this point, you have no control over the shutter speed as Nikon - in their great wisdom, made it so until the film counter has advanced to position 1. This applies to all the other aperture priority capable Nikons then.

The fact that the timer light blinks does indicate the battery is good and apparently some camera functionality.

The F3 is completely battery dependent except for one setting "T". In that position, you can fire the shutter completely mechanically by using the Backup Mechanical Release Lever located just below the mirror lockup lever. In this mode, the shutter will stay open until you move the shutter dial off the "T" position.

I just checked on one of my F3's about the mechanical release.

Cock the shutter, then turn the mechanical release anti-clockwise as you look at the front of the camera and the shutter should fire. This happens whether or not I have the camera switched off; I checked. You do not use the shutter button when using the mechanical release. Just turning the mechanical release lever, will fire the shutter.

Do you, or have you, inadvertantly locked the mirror into the up position? With the mirror locked the camera is quieter; that said mine still makes a noise I can hear with the mirror locked up.

Have you checked the shutters are actually cocking, can you see the vertical metal looking thing cross the film frame as you wind the shutter?

The F3 shutter will fire with the cocking lever either flush with the body, or away from the body.

Mick.

Thanks for the replys .
So to answer in order ;

shutterfinger said:

First you download the instruction manual, read through it thoroughly making sure you're not taking something for granted.
https://www.butkus.org/chinon/nikon.htm
A possible cause is the rewind lever stuck in the rewind position. M60 is manual 1/60.

Click to expand...

First thing I did when I bought the first camera was to download the manual .
And read it .
And when the first camera arrived not working , I read it again to check to check I wasn't missing something .
After trying everything else with nothing happening , I pressed in the rewind button on the bottom of the camera and the take up spool moved freely .
This didn't have an effect on resetting the film advance lever or allowing the shutter to fire on either the shutter release or manual release lever .
.

Les Sarile said:

When you open the back - as if to put a new roll of film in, then close it, the shutter speed should display M80 or 80 - not M60. Can you confirm?
At this point, you have no control over the shutter speed as Nikon - in their great wisdom, made it so until the film counter has advanced to position 1. This applies to all the other aperture priority capable Nikons then.

The fact that the timer light blinks does indicate the battery is good and apparently some camera functionality.

The F3 is completely battery dependent except for one setting "T". In that position, you can fire the shutter completely mechanically by using the Backup Mechanical Release Lever located just below the mirror lockup lever. In this mode, the shutter will stay open until you move the shutter dial off the "T" position.

Click to expand...

I've just double checked this .
Here's what the readout says when the shutter speed dial is set to the following .
X = m80
T = m -
B = m -
8 (sec) = m 8-
4 (sec) = m 8-
2 (sec) = m 2-
1 (sec) = m 1- the dash mark is at the top of the frame to indicate full seconds rather than fraction's of a second .
1/2 = m 2
1/4 = m 4
1/8 = m 8
1/15 = m 15
1/30 = m 30
1/60 = m 60
All settings between 1/125 and 1/2000 give a reading of m 80 .
In "A" the readout is 80 ( no "m" ) . Regardless of where I point the camera , the 80 does not change .

The shutter does not fire regardless of what the dial is set at , and the wind on lever does not move anything . It just clicks out approx 20 degrees when moved , no further .

Even set to "T" and moving the mechanical release lever , nothing happens .

Mick Fagan said:

I just checked on one of my F3's about the mechanical release.

Cock the shutter, then turn the mechanical release anti-clockwise as you look at the front of the camera and the shutter should fire. This happens whether or not I have the camera switched off; I checked. You do not use the shutter button when using the mechanical release. Just turning the mechanical release lever, will fire the shutter.

Do you, or have you, inadvertantly locked the mirror into the up position? With the mirror locked the camera is quieter; that said mine still makes a noise I can hear with the mirror locked up.

Have you checked the shutters are actually cocking, can you see the vertical metal looking thing cross the film frame as you wind the shutter?

The F3 shutter will fire with the cocking lever either flush with the body, or away from the body.

Mick.

Click to expand...

As noted in above in my first post , I can't move the lever any further .
Therefor I can't see any movement of the shutter curtains as they don't move .

I would imagine that the last thing someone did to the camera was to wind it on thus cocking the shutter ready for a shot .
But as no matter what I do , the shutter won't fire .
Turning the mechanical release lever moves fine , first to about about 50 degrees ,where it can rest without your finger on it .
Then the final press down to about 80 degrees , which when released returns to the 50 degree area ,
But nothing happens .

The mirror is not in the mirror lock up position , though the function works fine .
Regardless of which , the shutter should still fire .

EDIT ; just to add ; I have tried to get it to fire with and without a lens attached , and with and without the back open . Nothing happens at all ..........

The camera looks to be in very good condition for it's age .



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As a side note , I've been using manual slr's for about 30 years , auto focus slr's for about 25 years ,Mostly Minolta (M/F & A/F ) and Canon EOS , but also and I also use rangefinder cameras , medium format cameras ( folders , point and shoot , slr's and tlr's ) as well as large format and a bit of pinhole , as well as digital .
So I'm not unfamiliar with some quirks some cameras have ( especially ones such as Kiev and Zorky ) but to have two F3's on the trot behaving the same has me wonder if I'm missing something or have just been unlucky to buy two cameras with the same fault .

With my Minolta X500 and X700 cameras both share the same issue of having a dodgy capacitor for the shutter release .
Being an all electronic camera that means it's dead without a repair .

as the Nikon F3 also has the mechanical release it should still fire with or without a battery .
That's why I'm confused .

Hope to here a remedy , thanks .
Neil .

Most likely, like my used F3, the shutter winding mechanism is (was) jammed.

I had to take mine to Pro Camera in Charlottesville, VA and they repaired this and some corrosion in the battery chamber for $95 USD.

This is, supposedly, not an uncommon problem.

When you pen the back can the take up spool be turned with finger? After pressing the release button on bottom plate, does the take up spool spin by finger?

After checking that and closing the back, does the wind lever engage normally?

If not... it seems like the wind mechanism is broken.

PS... if the mechanical release doesn’t work I wouldn’t assume shutter is cocked.

Kino said:

Most likely, like my used F3, the shutter winding mechanism is (was) jammed.

I had to take mine to Pro Camera in Charlottesville, VA and they repaired this and some corrosion in the battery chamber for $95 USD.

This is, supposedly, not an uncommon problem.

Click to expand...

That's what I'm expecting to be the fault .
As I've not heard of any common problems , and that both the F3's that I've bought are behaving exactly the same I wanted to make sure that the camera is faulty and it's not just me doing or not doing something that's the issue .

I bought it off ebay listed as in full working order ( including metering working correctly , which it doesn't meter at all !) so if it's faulty , it's going back !

Both doing the same weird thing is some sort of really bad luck. Buy insurance now... you can put Kino and me down as a beneficiaries.

neilt3 said:

That's what I'm expecting to be the fault .
As I've not heard of any common problems , and that both the F3's that I've bought are behaving exactly the same I wanted to make sure that the camera is faulty and it's not just me doing or not doing something that's the issue .

I bought it off ebay listed as in full working order ( including metering working correctly , which it doesn't meter at all !) so if it's faulty , it's going back !

Click to expand...

Well, the tech at Pro Camera said it was not uncommon for the F3 to eventually jam.

BrianShaw said:

When you pen the back can the take up spool be turned with finger? After pressing the release button on bottom plate, does the take up spool spin by finger?

After checking that and closing the back, does the wind lever engage normally?

If not... it seems like the wind mechanism is broken.

Click to expand...

When the back is opened I think the take up spool was fairly firm , and the the part with the two cogs on is fixed solid .

When the rewind release on the bottom is press , both turn freely .
When the back is shut , the rewind button remains pressed in , rather than popping back out , and the film advance lever is still unable to be moved beyond the first twenty or so degrees .

BrianShaw said:

PS... if the mechanical release doesn’t work I wouldn’t assume shutter is cocked.

Click to expand...

Seems reasonable to assume that .

Does the shutter have to be cocked for the metering to work ?

OK, humor me here...

You say in original post:
"Turning the mechanical release lever moves fine , first to about about 50 degrees ,where it can rest without your finger on it .
Then the final press down to about 80 degrees , which when released returns to the 50 degree area ,
But nothing happens ."

My F3 only behaves that way when the shutter is NOT COCKED, otherwise the manual release lever fires the shutter, so I think your shutter is not cocked.

But BOTH cameras? What are the odds?

neilt3 said:

Does the shutter have to be cocked for the metering to work ?

Click to expand...

No.

BrianShaw said:

Both doing the same weird thing is some sort of really bad luck. Buy insurance now... you can put Kino and me down as a beneficiaries.

Click to expand...

Getting insurance will probably have a clause in the small print that means the cover doesn't start until the day after I die !
I've got a nice paperweight I could do you a deal on if your interested ?

Kino said:

Well, the tech at Pro Camera said it was not uncommon for the F3 to eventually jam.

Click to expand...

Bugger !
Oh well , not a surprise , Nikon couldn't even put the lenses on the right way around !

neilt3 said:

When the back is shut , the rewind button remains pressed in , rather than popping back out , and the film advance lever is still unable to be moved beyond the first twenty or so degrees

Click to expand...

That’s not right. It’s wind mechanism is jammed. Check the “door closed” lever on the top rail of the door housing. That tells camera to reset the rewind button and put the wind lever back in action.

Figure that out first rather than fussing over shutter cocking and meter operation.

You could try charging the shutter via the motor drive connector to see if that will cock the shutter. It turns 1 revolution anti-clockwise to cock the shutter. You may have to hold down the shutter release to do this (at your own risk, of course!).

neilt3 said:

Getting insurance will probably have a clause in the small print that means the cover doesn't start until the day after I die !

Click to expand...

Yes... that’s how life insurance works. But no fine print; that would be in bold font!

But I really hope your bad luck only applies to cameras.

Kino said:

You could try charging the shutter via the motor drive connector to see if that will cock the shutter. It turns 1 revolution anti-clockwise to cock the shutter. You may have to hold down the shutter release to do this (at your own risk, of course!).

Click to expand...

True, but Not worthy it if the wind mechanism is jammed. Unless your thinking that might unjam it. I’m no so sure if it would or not.

Kino said:

OK, humor me here...

You say in original post:
"Turning the mechanical release lever moves fine , first to about about 50 degrees ,where it can rest without your finger on it .
Then the final press down to about 80 degrees , which when released returns to the 50 degree area ,
But nothing happens ."

My F3 only behaves that way when the shutter is NOT COCKED, otherwise the manual release lever fires the shutter, so I think your shutter is not cocked.

But BOTH cameras? What are the odds?

Click to expand...

Sounds like it jammed before the film was wound on and cocking the shutter .
I just assumed it had been wound on already as any camera that has been wound on , if you go to wind it on again before firing , that's as far as the lever would move .

Regards both cameras being like this , one camera ? sure it's faulty .
Two cameras ? that's why I'm asking if I'm missing the obvious .
Doesn't sound like I am . Both cameras just duff ......

Kino said:

No.

Click to expand...

Thank's , that's another fault where the listing said it also worked fine .

Guess it's going back .

neilt3 said:

Thank's , that's another fault where the listing said it also worked fine .

Guess it's going back .

Click to expand...

You asked if the camera had to be cocked before the meter works; I said NO it doesn't have to be cocked before the meter works.

If that motor drive connector is immovable CCW with the shutter button pressed, it is almost certainly jammed.

BrianShaw said:

True, but Not worthy it if the wind mechanism is jammed. Unless your thinking that might unjam it. I’m no so sure if it would or not.

Click to expand...

That was my thought; it might possibly unjam it, but then again, it might not.

I think the indisputable clue of a wind mechanism jam is that the rewind button isn’t popping out...

Probably so...