Expired color film?

[Jimi3]

I’m getting back into shooting film after nearly 20 years away, and have found a bunch of leftover film from back then. It’s been refrigerated most of those years, but not all. The consensus seems to be that my black and white and even infrared film should be ok, but what about the color stuff? I’ve got some 120 and 4x5 that expired around 2007; would be nice to shoot the sheet film as it’s so expensive now.

 

[BAC1967]

2007 isn’t very old, especially if it’s been refrigerated.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I agree with @BAC1967 go ahead and use it. It should be good.

 

[Steven Lee]

Here's possibly an unpopular opinion: expired color film is only good for testing cameras. Because it prevents you from troubleshooting potential color balancing issues. If you can't get good color, problems with chemistry, development time/temp, and scanning are hard to tell apart even with fresh film. Adding another variable makes it even harder, even psychologically - you'll never be sure if you've done everything correctly.

B&W is far easier.

 

[BrianShaw]

Here's possibly an unpopular opinion: expired color film is only good for testing cameras. Because it prevents you from troubleshooting potential color balancing issues. If you can't get good color, problems with chemistry, development time/temp, and scanning are hard to tell apart even with fresh film. Adding another variable makes it even harder, even psychologically - you'll never be sure if you've done everything correctly.

B&W is far easier.

Prhaps unpopular but very realistic opinion, in my opinion. And I'll go even farther... expired film isn't always good for camera testing since it's hard to discern between film problems or a camera problem when the neg/print comes out wonky.

What outdated film, especially color, is good for is "art photography" when part of the art is achieved through unpredictable results.

 

[koraks]

Prhaps unpopular but very realistic opinion, in my opinion.

I have to agree. Overall I find shooting expired color film a very disappointing experience. At best, there's lots of fog and some wonky colors. But more often than not, it's just impossible to get good colors from the stuff, especially Portra.

 

[Tel]

What outdated film, especially color, is good for is "art photography" when part of the art is achieved through unpredictable results.

Yup. If you need predictable results, don't do it. If you like to experiment, go ahead.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have to agree. Overall I find shooting expired color film a very disappointing experience. At best, there's lots of fog and some wonky colors. But more often than not, it's just impossible to get good colors from the stuff, especially Portra.

I agree if the film has not been stored its whole life in a freezer or refrigerator. When I purchase film from a trusted store or website, I check the date and freeze immediately. I have had not problems with color or black & white film, although I was recently informed that Kodak Portra 800 does not do well even frozen over long periods of time but I have not experience that to date.

 

[koraks]

I've shot a lot of expired color negative film that spent its entire life refrigerated. Especially the Portra (both 160 and 400) was junk.

 

[Jimi3]

Well, the 4x5 I have is Portra vc, so that doesn’t sound promising, although I am open to experimentation with this stuff.

I was actually thinking of starting to do my own c-41, so it might be frustrating working with expired film at the outset.

 

[MattKing]

I was actually thinking of starting to do my own c-41, so it might be frustrating working with expired film at the outset.

Actually, it almost certainly will be frustrating.
Old colour film generally means less consistent colour film. Even if that inconsistency gives results that are usable, it will play havoc with setting up a new processing line.

 

[mtjade2007]

Expired films are not that bad as some of you think. . I have shot and processed many Fuji NPS, NPH, Konica Centuria, VX-100, Kodak VC, NC (160 and 400) and VPS-3 all expired before and after the year of 2000. I had more problems from processing issues than the expiration of the old films. The expired films I shot were all well kept in my freezer from the day I bought them until I took them out to shoot. That's probably the main reason mine are still good. I shot recently a roll of Kodak pro100 expired in mid 90's. I was surprised that it came out just fine. My Konica Centuria 400 expired in 2016 came out beautifully. I think it depends on if the films were kept in a freezer or not. A 20 year old film not kept in a freezer is likely junk no doubt about it.

 

[koraks]

@mtjade2007 the answer to the question "is expired color film still good" depends on your expectations.

I've seen people post scans of negatives (exceedingly rarely, prints) of expired film that they though were quite nice, but that I personally found atrocious. Their assessment wasn't wrong - they just held those images to a different standard.

In my experience, expired color film really is as bad as I think, because it's a personal qualification based on personal experience and my own standards. I've shot a lot of expired color film - literally hundreds of rolls and sheets in all formats from 35mm up to 4x5" and from 'vintages' randing from the 1980s (totally useless junk) through the 1990s (sometimes surprisingly good, albeit not exactly usable in my view) to recently expired stuff from e.g. up to a decade ago (disappointingly bad given its relatively limited age - but a whole lot better than the 1990s Vericolor stuff).

It's all so personal. But if someone gets back into color photography, wants to dial in a color process for themselves, and is thinking about using his stash of by now significantly expired film for it, I think a word of caution is in place. They may still give it a go, and even be pleased with the results. It would be great if that's the case. But there are no guarantees.

 

[Tel]

C-41 is not as complicated as you might imagine. But like any such process, you'll need to develop your own routine--one that works for you. I would recommend shooting and developing your expired film only after you have become comfortable with C-41 yourself. Start with fresh film; if you get results you don't like you'll know it's your processing that is likely at fault and not the film itself. Once you've got consistently good negatives from your processing sessions, start playing around with things like expired film, cross-processing and such. Picasso had to learn to draw first.

 

[Jimi3]

C-41 is not as complicated as you might imagine. But like any such process, you'll need to develop your own routine--one that works for you. I would recommend shooting and developing your expired film only after you have become comfortable with C-41 yourself. Start with fresh film; if you get results you don't like you'll know it's your processing that is likely at fault and not the film itself. Once you've got consistently good negatives from your processing sessions, start playing around with things like expired film, cross-processing and such. Picasso had to learn to draw first.

Yea, this is what I’m thinking too - start with fresh film. I’m really not even sure, at this point, whether I’m going to be shooting enough color to warrant processing my own. So far it’s only been four or five rolls of 120 (shot in a 6x9 back on my view camera) per month, so it might make sense to just keep sending it out. My local place charges $8 per roll for development, so it’s not cheap, but also not prohibitive.

 

[mtjade2007]

Yes, C-41 is not complicated. But many things could go wrong causing fresh film worse than expired film processed properly.

It is not trivial for DIYers to keep all these things of C-41 processing films right. Using a JOBO ATL machine like I do thinking automatic everything will put me in heaven for my processing. No, there are different set of things that could go wrong still. After years of mixed success and failure I am one who eventually concluded that fresh film is no better than expired film if not processed properly. Expired film can be very good even excellent if processed correctly.

Yes, fresh films are supposed to be perfect and absolutely superior than expired stuff. But they must be properly processed or they could be equally junky as expired films are. Most expired films are no longer made today. Many great films in the past are not accessible any more except those that are kept by people in their freezers. If you desire absolute perfect and superior results shoot fresh films and send them to reputable labs to process them. You get absolute high quality images but that doesn't offer you anything to learn about processing. Shooting expired films is fun and economical. You get to learn everything about processing by dipping your hands into the chemicals.

Think of it from a different angle of view, the expired films are like different films to play with. If VW Rabbit were the only car that's being made today and someone offered a 40 years old Beatle wouldn't it be fun to get it and drive it?

 

[faberryman]

Time is the most valuable commodity I have. I am not interested in spending time and energy making photographs and processing the film only to find that the expired film is wonky. For those who like to "play with" expired films, I hope you find the experience enjoyable. To each his own.

 

[Tel]

Yea, this is what I’m thinking too - start with fresh film. I’m really not even sure, at this point, whether I’m going to be shooting enough color to warrant processing my own. So far it’s only been four or five rolls of 120 (shot in a 6x9 back on my view camera) per month, so it might make sense to just keep sending it out. My local place charges $8 per roll for development, so it’s not cheap, but also not prohibitive.

I've been souping C-41 in my kitchen since 2012. From the beginning I've used the Unicolor dry powder kits, except one time when I used a Tetenal liquid kit. It's nothing like rocket science: I mix the chemicals as the instructions say to and follow the processing instructions pretty closely and get consistent results. I typically get 16 rolls per kit, so that's somewhere between 2 and 3 dollars per roll. But cost saving isn't the only benefit: in my town there's only one camera shop that takes processing orders and I know for a fact that they send it out, so there's really no point asking them to do any special processing because (sad past experience here) it likely won't get done the way you want it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I've been souping C-41 in my kitchen since 2012. From the beginning I've used the Unicolor dry powder kits, except one time when I used a Tetenal liquid kit. It's nothing like rocket science: I mix the chemicals as the instructions say to and follow the processing instructions pretty closely and get consistent results. I typically get 16 rolls per kit, so that's somewhere between 2 and 3 dollars per roll. But cost saving isn't the only benefit: in my town there's only one camera shop that takes processing orders and I know for a fact that they send it out, so there's really no point asking them to do any special processing because (sad past experience here) it likely won't get done the way you want it.

I agree. Not rocket science, just follow the instructions. I get 16 rolls per Unicolor 1 liter kit.

 

[koraks]

But many things could go wrong causing fresh film worse than expired film processed properly.

These are two separate issues, though.
Processing C41 film at home to a decent quality level isn't very difficult. Many people do so, successfully. It doesn't take a Jobo ATL or similar, either.
The results with fresh film will generally be better than with expired film. There's no clear reason to associate fresh film with poor quality home processing and expired film with good processing. The only reason appears to be, is to somehow make expired film look more attractive than it really is. There's no point in doing this. Just tell a straight story to OP and let them decide.

 

[lamerko]

Expired films often produce interesting results. Not right, but interesting. I don't necessarily look for that in the film. Of course, disappointing results are often obtained. For this reason, in general, expired films are not suitable for work. But for the hobby - why not.
For home development - it's really a good time to gain experience. Yes, with a bad result, it will be unclear where the problem is - whether in the film or in the developing process. In fact, some kits on the market don't perform very well. But as already written – the process is actually very simple. You just have to follow the instructions. No special expensive equipment needed - just a sous vide heater for precise temperature control. As long as the times are respected - the procedure will be fine. Either way, even if you give these films to a lab, the results will most likely not be good. For acceptable results, one should start by applying the appropriate (for each individual film) overexposure during shooting. Of course, without any guarantee...

 

[faberryman]

Expired films often produce interesting results. Not right, but interesting. I don't necessarily look for that in the film. Of course, disappointing results are often obtained. For this reason, in general, expired films are not suitable for work. But for the hobby - why not.

It depends on what your hobby is. My hobby, which I approach seriously, is making portfolios of photographs, not shooting expired film to see what I get. Nothing wrong the hobby of shooting expired film to see what you get. I am sure that is enjoyable for some people.

For home development - it's really a good time to gain experience. Yes, with a bad result, it will be unclear where the problem is - whether in the film or in the developing process. In fact, some kits on the market don't perform very well.
But as already written – the process is actually very simple. You just have to follow the instructions. No special expensive equipment needed - just a sous vide heater for precise temperature control. As long as the times are respected - the procedure will be fine. Either way, even if you give these films to a lab, the results will most likely not be good.

I learned how to develop color films - both color negative and color transparency - in the 1980s. Once I satisfied myself I could do it myself if I needed to, which occurred after the first roll, I processed enough rolls to use up the chemical kits and resumed sending my color film out for processing. It was cheaper, less hassle, and the results were consistent. I don't know why you think lab results will most likely not be good. It sounds like you need to find a new lab.

For acceptable results, one should start by applying the appropriate (for each individual film) overexposure during shooting. Of course, without any guarantee...

Again, nothing wrong the hobby of shooting expired film to see what you get. I am sure that is enjoyable for some people.

 

[lamerko]

It depends on what your hobby is. My hobby, which I approach seriously, is making portfolios of photographs, not shooting expired film to see what I get. Nothing wrong the hobby of shooting expired film to see what you get. I am sure that is enjoyable for some people.

Yes, different people have different understandings of many things. This is the way it should be. Photography is painting with light - whether you use film, digital camera, collodion process, color or black and white - it's all a matter of personal choice. So it is with experiments. The OP wanted to experiment with his own expired films - the comments could have been a little more encouraging and less discouraging

I learned how to develop color films - both color negative and color transparency - in the 1980's. Once I satisfied myself I could do it myself if I needed to, which occurred after the first roll, I processed enough rolls to use up up the chemical kits and resumed sending my color film out for processing. It was cheaper, less hassle, and the results were consistent. C41 is C41. E6 is E6. I don't know why you think lab results will most likely not be good. It sounds like you need to find a new lab.

When I said the results probably won't be good, I was referring to the specific case of photo films that are 20 years old. No matter how good the lab is, it can't make up for that
Regarding the price and quality of the labs - in fact, I have a lot of chemistry at home - a whole warehouse. I can reduce the cost per roll to a very low price. True, some ingredients are too exotic, but they can actually be omitted in certain conditions. But not only the price is decisive - I live in Bulgaria and there are not many laboratories left here. In fact, most photo studios just send the films to other studios - you don't even know who. Well, there are one or two studios left that are still going but declining.

 

[Sirius Glass]

These are two separate issues, though.
Processing C41 film at home to a decent quality level isn't very difficult. Many people do so, successfully. It doesn't take a Jobo ATL or similar, either.
The results with fresh film will generally be better than with expired film. There's no clear reason to associate fresh film with poor quality home processing and expired film with good processing. The only reason appears to be, is to somehow make expired film look more attractive than it really is. There's no point in doing this. Just tell a straight story to OP and let them decide.

The key to home developing C41 film is maintaining the proper temperature. That done it is not harder than developing black & white film, time each step carefully. I like to say that it is easier than falling off a moving motorcycle.

 

[faberryman]

The key to home developing C41 film is maintaining the proper temperature. That done it is not harder than developing black & white film, time each step carefully. I like to say that it is easier than falling off a moving motorcycle.

You crack yourself up.