Europe v USA approach to usage of accessories and chemicals for photography

[cliveh]

I may be wrong, but from reading posts on this site over many years, I get the impression that photographers in the USA are far more dependent on gadgets and chemical additives than us folk in Europe. Would you agree?

 

[konakoa]

How so? Could you clarify what gadgets you're thinking of? Myself I like pre-packaged chemistry (Xtol) and I do make a few formulas from scratch with bulk raw chemicals, yet I only follow the formula and don't add anything unnecessary.

 

[BrianShaw]

Stirring the pot again? Good luck…

 

[Milpool]

Stirring the pot again? Good luck…

Seriously. Stirring the pot is so bourgeois.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I may be wrong, but from reading posts on this site over many years, I get the impression that photographers in the USA are far more dependent on gadgets and chemical additives than us folk in Europe. Would you agree?

We do like our McDonald's Big Macs.

 

[Chuck1]

Better living through chemistry (and accessories)

 

[MattKing]

Who can tell?
It may be that the respective memberships of posters on APUG/Photrio tend those ways, but it isn't clear that that is representative of how the different worlds differ.
I do know that my dropping into FADU from time to time reveals a world that is a bit more similar to the photographic retailers and groups that I was around in the 1970s and 1980s than Photrio is, but I think that simply tells us more about who posts on the two sites.

 

[mshchem]

I hardly use a battery let alone a gadget. I have a Stopclock timer I bought a couple years ago, it's on an enlarger I use infrequently, that's the newest gadget I own. I used a sheet of that "new fangled" resin coated paper today to make a proof sheet of 12 exposures from a Hasselblad.
I do have a Jobo.

Oh Gadget, I use some $50 used toy Spynet IR goggles and they are da bomb! Guilty as charged!

 

[Kenny Harrelson]

Stirring the pot again? Good luck…

I prefer to be shaken, not stirred. I do use those new-fangled Magicubes once in a while.

 

[mshchem]

I prefer to be shaken, not stirred. I do use those new-fangled Magicubes once in a while.

Once again no batteries

 

[koraks]

gadgets and chemical additives

Can you clarify? What kind of gadgets? Where in the photographic process would the chemical additives (and of what kind) come in?
So far, I don't really see a pattern. I see mostly individual differences between photographers. Some like simplicity, constancy and stick to the book. Others are fervent tinkerers. I've never noticed a geographical pattern to it; it mostly seems to be related to personal temperament.

Also, I do see a temporal pattern in that there's a growing cottage industry of gadgets, apps and even chemistry that has emerged over the past 10-15 years. This mostly has to do with the combination of low barriers to entry for new sellers/producers; you can start selling stuff all over the world without much of an investment, right form your own attic or cellar. Combined with globalization of supply, this has made it possible for private individuals to import bulk chemicals, have electronics manufacturing work performed at low cost for small batches, and many other aspects of industry that used to be reserved for larger business entities.

 

[cliveh]

Also, I do see a temporal pattern in that there's a growing cottage industry of gadgets, apps and even chemistry that has emerged over the past 10-15 years. This mostly has to do with the combination of low barriers to entry for new sellers/producers; you can start selling stuff all over the world without much of an investment, right form your own attic or cellar. Combined with globalization of supply, this has made it possible for private individuals to import bulk chemicals, have electronics manufacturing work performed at low cost for small batches, and many other aspects of industry that used to be reserved for larger business entities.

This could be what I was refering to and perhaps it has no USA/Europe divide.

 

[koraks]

Ah, in that case, that might just be it - and it's a trend I definitely do see. Think of outfits like Cinestill (who arose to prominence from nowhere), Reveni Labs (@Reveni-matt) and perhaps also CatLabs as more formalized businesses, and of course @dkonigs with his Dektronics that's also starting to gain a recognizable position in the market. But also many lesser-known and sometimes smaller initiatives along the lines of what @MCB18 does here with non-standard film types, not to mention the legions of sellers and small-scale manufacturers or repackagers active on platforms like eBay.

At this point we see so many of them pop up that they are starting to pose a challenge for Photrio as well as we have to re-think the divide between regular forum contributions/discussions and commercial activity, with the lines between these two frequently blurring as new players announce their products here on the forum or engage in pre-commercial market research. While this was quite rare only a few years ago, presently it's an almost weekly occurrence where we see new market entrants register on the forum and attempt to engage with the community for getting new products out there, or gearing up to do so.

 

[MCB18]

I appear to have been summoned! And I’m not entirely sure why tbh

 

[koraks]

I see your endeavor with the repackaging of 'odd' (not meant in a derogatory way) film as representative of a cottage industry that's growing within the analog photography domain (and others). I also see this as evidence that the barriers to market entry for small-scale players are relatively low at this point. On the other side of the supply-demand system, there appears to be considerable interest in trying many things out.

 

[pentaxuser]

Who can tell?
It may be that the respective memberships of posters on APUG/Photrio tend those ways, but it isn't clear that that is representative of how the different worlds differ.
I do know that my dropping into FADU from time to time reveals a world that is a bit more similar to the photographic retailers and groups that I was around in the 1970s and 1980s than Photrio is, but I think that simply tells us more about who posts on the two sites.

I suspect that on FADU they all drink "warm beer" as well

pentaxuser

 

[MCB18]

I see your endeavor with the repackaging of 'odd' (not meant in a derogatory way) film as representative of a cottage industry that's growing within the analog photography domain (and others). I also see this as evidence that the barriers to market entry for small-scale players are relatively low at this point. On the other side of the supply-demand system, there appears to be considerable interest in trying many things out.

Certainly trying to make something cool happen, it’s a lot more anticlimactic than I was expecting. Lots of sending emails and waiting for replies (if they come). Having better luck with 120, 35mm is proving to be a lot more difficult because perforators are not easy to come by.

 

[dkonigs]

I'm not sure what sort of sentiment started this thread, but there are absolutely plenty of "gadget" companies on the other side of the Atlantic. (Intrepid, Heiland, Jobo, Filmomat, the folks doing the Maya kickstarter, etc) If there's any divide, it has more to do with attitude and personality than with geographic location.

At this point we see so many of them pop up that they are starting to pose a challenge for Photrio as well as we have to re-think the divide between regular forum contributions/discussions and commercial activity, with the lines between these two frequently blurring as new players announce their products here on the forum or engage in pre-commercial market research. While this was quite rare only a few years ago, presently it's an almost weekly occurrence where we see new market entrants register on the forum and attempt to engage with the community for getting new products out there, or gearing up to do so.

This is actually a constant source of frustration for folks like myself. Nearly every forum out there has some sort of policy that banishes any content deemed "commercial." Except there actually isn't a more acceptable place for us to actually discuss any of our projects. As such, we can't post about things anywhere near as often as we'd like to.

The reason this makes for such a blurry line, of course, is that most of us are not in it to "run a business for the sole purpose of profit." At this point, if you're a niche within a niche, the market is simply too small for that. Rather, we have a passion for the field and want to be able to offer the fruits of our labor to other people. In software, you can just post things on-line as no big deal. But for hardware, you pretty much have to do it in the context of a business. There are many reasons for this, from liability to certifications to vendor relationships, but they're all pretty much unavoidable if you want to make something that can be used by people other than yourself. (And yes, even if you don't expect to actually make any sort of real profit, you still need to do all of this.)

 

[koraks]

@dkonigs thanks for offering your perspective and this is indeed the kind of consideration we also run into - but then from 'our end of the deal', so to speak. We're working on accommodating something. A preliminary approach can be found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/forums/sponsored-content.10/ This place is intended for folks like yourself to post about new developments etc. However, please bear in mind that this is kind of a stop-gap measure as we're also working on a restructuring of the forum that IMO would allow us more easily to navigate this grey area. In any case, I/we hear your pain and it's something on the forefront of our minds.

 

[MCB18]

@dkonigs thanks for offering your perspective and this is indeed the kind of consideration we also run into - but then from 'our end of the deal', so to speak. We're working on accommodating something. A preliminary approach can be found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/forums/sponsored-content.10/ This place is intended for folks like yourself to post about new developments etc. However, please bear in mind that this is kind of a stop-gap measure as we're also working on a restructuring of the forum that IMO would allow us more easily to navigate this grey area. In any case, I/we hear your pain and it's something on the forefront of our minds.

I wish I had been told this was a thing before, I hadn’t realized it existed until I got pinged in the 122 thread. I’m sure a lot of my classifieds posts would probably fit better there.

 

[koraks]

I wish I had been told this was a thing before, I hadn’t realized it existed until I got pinged in the 122 thread. I’m sure a lot of my classifieds posts would probably fit better there.

@Sean put this up like 2 weeks ago or so.
To clarify: we'd like to keep the actual Classifieds offerings in that category as we believe it would be best for everyone; as a seller you wouldn't benefit from a commercial offer being in a separate place where people are less likely to find it. For gauging interest etc, the place I mentioned is currently the best place - but as I said, we only made it available recently.

 

[DREW WILEY]

No ... We don't all like McDonald's, Alan. When I take hot shower after eating a Big Mac, there's the smell of styrene. Talk about chemical additives! All their sauces are pumped in through ports on the side of the building from big tank trucks. Gosh knows which end of the truck the frying oil comes from! Around here, if someone wants a "clean" fresh fast food burger or fries, they go to In N' Out instead. But the worst of the worst is Jack in the Box; I suspect their frying oil comes from the LaBrea tar pits.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

No ... We don't all like McDonald's, Alan. When I take hot shower after eating a Big Mac, there's the smell of styrene. Talk about chemical additives! All their sauces are pumped in through ports on the side of the building from big tank trucks. Gosh knows which end of the truck the frying oil comes from! Around here, if someone wants a "clean" fresh fast food burger or fries, they go to In N' Out instead. But the worst of the worst is Jack in the Box; I suspect their frying oil comes from the LaBrea tar pits.

The trick is to hot shower the Big Mac before you eat it.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's really a lot of work to put on a hazmat suit and gloves before passing through the Golden Arches. One of these days they're going to dig up a giant set of sandstone arches near the tombs in the Valley of the Kings of ancient Egypt, and finally learn the real secret why mummies didn't decay.