Erotic or Pornographic?

[Bob Carnie]

What happens in the Chat room should stay in the Chat room..


wtf is the Chat room btw?

 

[Toffle]

wtf is the Chat room btw?

A very lonely place.

 

[lxdude]

Just to be clear, the OP is not the person who called "porn". The porn accusation was in the gallery.

Thanks for that. Now it makes sense.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I don't recall the specifics of the chat - I don't have a transcript so I won't argue the accuracy or inaccuracy of other people's recall of a conversation over four years ago. But I did NOT advocate someone else post what he thought would be a controversial image for the sake of stirring controversy. In fact, I was talking with said individual because he approached me and said he wanted fame through controversy, and did I think it would be a good way. I told him to post the image if he wanted to post the image, wanted feedback, and was prepared for whatever reaction it generated.

I've never said I was unaware of the potential for controversy of my image. I knew it would probably tweak a few folks - the same folks who had been previously posting hateful comments on other male nudes that I had posted and should have never been controversial. But why do you consider my response of posting that image to be either meritous of the outrage, or disproportionate as a response to the contemporaneous conversation about nudes and censorship? In case you didn't notice, I sat there and took my lumps when the image caused controversy, and I took them with grace. You could say the image itself was disrespectful (I'd disagree with that), but you can't say I handled any of the responses with anything other than respect.

I can't remember whether or not I was there. I probably have logs on the other computer, but it's heavy and I'm NOT lugging it up from the basement. I do remember the image, though, and I'm glad you left it up.

I think that shaming, whether body shaming or sexuality shaming, is horrendous. I think that sometimes women are objectified in photographs, but that Sanders and Emil are not the ones doing it. I think that a portrait of an erect penis is not pornographic because it's just a penis, but there are some poses that photographers put women in that could definitely be considered as such. I think that the image was a *perfect* response to the conversation, and proved admirably that there is an obvious bias against male sexuality in photography that simply isn't there when it comes to female sexuality. I also think that it is vitally important to keep encouraging people who make a statement with their photography to continue doing the work. Controversy tends to breed discussion, and discussion can, at times, bring changes in thinking.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I can't remember whether or not I was there. I probably have logs on the other computer, but it's heavy and I'm NOT lugging it up from the basement. I do remember the image, though, and I'm glad you left it up.

I think that shaming, whether body shaming or sexuality shaming, is horrendous. I think that sometimes women are objectified in photographs, but that Sanders and Emil are not the ones doing it. I think that a portrait of an erect penis is not pornographic because it's just a penis, but there are some poses that photographers put women in that could definitely be considered as such. I think that the image was a *perfect* response to the conversation, and proved admirably that there is an obvious bias against male sexuality in photography that simply isn't there when it comes to female sexuality. I also think that it is vitally important to keep encouraging people who make a statement with their photography to continue doing the work. Controversy tends to breed discussion, and discussion can, at times, bring changes in thinking.

Thank you Stephanie for your support. And for the record, it was NOT erect. Just uncircumcised and substantial.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Thank you Stephanie for your support. And for the record, it was NOT erect. Just uncircumcised and substantial.

I...er...stand corrected. I'm facepalming posting that as a reply, but...

 

[Ian David]

Not to get off on a tangent...

Yeah, I used to feel pretty satisfied in technical drawing class when I produced a really nice tangent, but I cannot say that the feeling was ever sexually charged. But hey, it takes all sorts...

 

[winger]

I can't remember whether or not I was there. I probably have logs on the other computer, but it's heavy and I'm NOT lugging it up from the basement. I do remember the image, though, and I'm glad you left it up.

I think that shaming, whether body shaming or sexuality shaming, is horrendous. I think that sometimes women are objectified in photographs, but that Sanders and Emil are not the ones doing it. I think that a portrait of an erect penis is not pornographic because it's just a penis, but there are some poses that photographers put women in that could definitely be considered as such. I think that the image was a *perfect* response to the conversation, and proved admirably that there is an obvious bias against male sexuality in photography that simply isn't there when it comes to female sexuality. I also think that it is vitally important to keep encouraging people who make a statement with their photography to continue doing the work. Controversy tends to breed discussion, and discussion can, at times, bring changes in thinking.

I'd like to write something along these lines, but I think Stephanie wrote it better than I would.
I'm also glad that you left that image up, Scott (I'd bet it got a bunch more views today, too, if anyone knew where to look). I have nothing but respect for Emil's photos as well. If I ever shoot any nudes, they'd be more likely to be women and I hope I can do it a quarter as well.
As an American, I think that this country has a tendency to fly off the handle about body parts way quicker than any other (just look for discussions about breastfeeding - geez).

 

[StoneNYC]

Why don't we all just start posting nudes in this forum


~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ian Grant]

Why don't we all just start posting nudes in this forum

~Stone

Last time I posted a nude in the Gallery I had quite a few of favourable comments but also PM's about the image. Some of those PM's said it's a nice image but would be better if the model had kept some clothes on, they were referring to some other images I'd posted as well.

Ian

 

[lxdude]

Last time I posted a nude in the Gallery I had quite a few of favourable comments but also PM's about the image. Some of those PM's said it's a nice image but would be better if the model had kept some clothes on

Ian

Self portraits, eh?

 

[StoneNYC]

Last time I posted a nude in the Gallery I had quite a few of favourable comments but also PM's about the image. Some of those PM's said it's a nice image but would be better if the model had kept some clothes on, they were referring to some other images I'd posted as well.

Ian

That was my point, to just stir the pot, honestly all this talk about the idea of what would be art and what would be porn with no given examples as references I find kind of obscure...

Self portraits, eh?

LOL!!

Also most of my nudes were made using that medium "that shall not be named" so I don't have much if anything to share, I only recently started shooting nudes on film so I literally have one roll processed, the other 10 are in the fridge still unprocessed, so someone else should share LOL


~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jean Noire]

Maybe it was a San Franciscan that disliked Gandolfi's images :-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20399164.

J

 

[Ian Grant]

That was my point, to just stir the pot, honestly all this talk about the idea of what would be art and what would be porn with no given examples as references I find kind of obscure...

This was the image I referred to:

Whether someone thinks an image like this is art, erotic or what ever is down to their own preceptions.

Ian

 

[StoneNYC]

This was the image I referred to:

Whether someone thinks an image like this is art, erotic or what ever is down to their own preceptions.

Ian

On wow that's nice, my first thought was "wow she has great hair!" LOL I didn't even look at her breasts / crotch first.

That hair is awesome haha

The only film image I have right now is this one...

And mine though from far away shows no actual parts, when blown up you can almost see her nether parts and is certainly more hinting at sex being in Bed.. But I don't consider mine to be pornographic either (it's also not my best work, I just grabbed a roll to process and see if the exposure was good).

To be honest when shooting with strobes I use my digital as a checker (like one would use a Polaroid) but it was damaged in the Hurricane so I had nothing to go on but my Sekonic Meter, yes this is of course how its done but it was a small room and I didn't want Otto LOOK as if it had been lit. (Can we tell I'm super uncomfortable posting my work and super particular?)

Anyway in my scene, I'm drawn more to the corner with all the neat old clocks lol.

Side note she is also not a model, but an ex lover and this was the first time I had seen her since she broke up web me 3 months prior, it was weird, first time shooting someone I had slept with, first time seeing her naked, and first time shooting a nude only on film. She also had a boyfriend at this point. I'm surprised I was able to figure out how to take a picture, and I've shot a LOT of nudes, but this was certainly more difficult.

ANYWAY point is, it anyone told me this was offensive I would tell them they were offensive, or blind, or ask if they were tested for a brain disorder recently...

I also support the idea that everyone is entitled to their opinion and we can't or shouldn't force our ideals onto them. So I accept the person who didn't like it, But I also don't want to miss out on seeing something beautiful because someone had a more narrow viewpoint than my own. And I don't think they should speak up about it, just like I wouldn't speak up about something I found boring or in poor taste, it's just not polite. "If ya don't have nuttin' nice to say, don't say nuttin' at all..."

Ok who's next?

PS where can I find that model with the hair? Hope she's near NY, I'm totally a model moocher when I see a good one haha.


~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[removed account4]

John, your recollection of this issue is accurate. I was in the chat room that very evening.

you don't have a transcript and remember what happened ?! i am sure you are making all this stuff up ...

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I may actually have a transcript, but I'm not lugging that computer upstairs.

 

[removed account4]

I may actually have a transcript, but I'm not lugging that computer upstairs.

stephanie

no need to search,
you weren't there that night ... you would have remembered if you were ...
it was one of those moments ...

 

[Ian Grant]

It's time to move on from that chat room discussion because it wasn't on record here, the issues raised by the OP in this thread do need discussion though.

I can fully appreciate the reasons why Emil (Gandolfi) removed the images because of the way comments might be taken by the model(s). Back in the early 1980's my then girl friend had some unwanted harassment after someone saw some art nude shots of her. That was down to the narrow minded attitude of the viewer just like in this particular case, although in our case it was also the psychological state of the harasser the image wasn't explicit or even particulary revealing.

Ian

 

[BrianShaw]

This was the image I referred to:
(snip)
Whether someone thinks an image like this is art, erotic or what ever is down to their own preceptions.

Art. Very nice art.

 

[BrianShaw]

"If ya don't have nuttin' nice to say, don't say nuttin' at all..."

Why is that so difficult for some people to understand or execute?

 

[StoneNYC]

Why is that so difficult for some people to understand or execute?

Because its often hard to put ourselves in another's shoes and view at their perspective.

I'm certainly guilty of it, I won't deny it, but when it's pointed out I try to be open to the idea that I'm the short sights one and not them, though I probably don't come to that conclusion as often as they might want haha


~Stone

The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

RE respecting models: I knew a girl in high school... pretty, very sweet and quiet. She was a nice young lady. A few years later I saw a photo of her in Playboy magazine as part of one of those yearly college football articles. Only her breasts were visible... a very tame image and artfully done. A couple of years after that I saw her sitting alone in a restaurant and she had changed. She wore heavy-covering clothing, sunglasses and a hat. She seemed to be hiding herself from the world. I could only guess it was due to sexual harassment from pea-size-brain morons who just wanted a quick hump.

Emil is only protecting his models.

 

[tkamiya]

Why is that so difficult for some people to understand or execute?

I think it's because many of us stopped distinguishing between the right thing to say and the right to say things.

 

[Ian Grant]

I think it's because many of us stopped distinguishing between the right thing to say and the right to say things.

The right way to say things is lead by example, and that might mean probing the boundaries, but then who puts their neck on the line. What's harder is distinguishing what degree of nudity, eroticism or even pornorgraphy (which I've NEVER seen on APUG) defines the boundaries.

That boundary is what causes offense to the whole not a very small minority. I have personal experience of what I'd term offensive images (I was in no way involved at any stage) but the police did investigate and parts of the work disappeared. It might surprise you that the offensive images were made by women.

Ian