Epson V600 - Epson Scan good enough?

[Alan Edward Klein]

Short answer is NO. If the image scans with black at 10 and white at 180 with no color correction then turning color correction On, and manually setting the black to 10 and the white to 180 or what ever the points that information on the negative starts and ends results in the same information from the negative.
By having color control off I can tell if I'm getting correct exposure and if my development is correct.
Here is another example: Vigilant six-20 100mm f8.8 Diomatic shutter that runs slow after CLA. Sunny 16 exposure on Arista EDU Ultra 100 in HC110 @ 68°F for 6.5 minutes.
View attachment 191691
Blacks start at 70.

Your answer NO is not clear since I asked two questions. Could you clarify?

 

[shutterfinger]

What IO believe I see in my scans is that with Color Correction of, the scan will cover the full range. The resultant picture will have a range on the lower end of the histogram - from let's sy 10 to 180. Then in LR or Elements, I expand the range to 0-255 using the points or Levels.. The result gets me about 95% of the corrections and I tweak from there.

My questions is do I really get more data by pre-adjusting the white and black points (levels) to 0-255 for the scan. Or am I already getting the same bits of data anyway since the range falls into it with as per my example of 10-180? (Note that the scan file size is the same in both cases).

With auto exposure ON the black and white points are clipped. With No Color Correction black is set to 0 white is set to 255. If the tone information starts at 10 and runs to 180 you get a flat line from 0 to 10 and a flat line from 180 to 255.
If you set the black point to 10 and the white point to 180 you get the same information as the 0-255 scan as 10-180 is all the usable information there is.
You can set the Levels in PS to 10 and 180 and have the same image as setting the B&W points in scan software.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

With auto exposure ON the black and white points are clipped. With No Color Correction black is set to 0 white is set to 255. If the tone information starts at 10 and runs to 180 you get a flat line from 0 to 10 and a flat line from 180 to 255.
If you set the black point to 10 and the white point to 180 you get the same information as the 0-255 scan as 10-180 is all the usable information there is.
You can set the Levels in PS to 10 and 180 and have the same image as setting the B&W points in scan software.

Others have made the argument that if you set levels from 10-180, rather than 0-255, you will get additional data since you won't waste data on the non-data areas 0-10 and 180-255. What is the truth about this? Is there a way to prove it one way or the other?

 

[shutterfinger]

Others have made the argument that if you set levels from 10-180, rather than 0-255, you will get additional data since you won't waste data on the non-data areas 0-10 and 180-255. What is the truth about this? Is there a way to prove it one way or the other?

I have never heard that. Scan several negatives with both full tonal range and with the 0 line section eliminated (B&W points set) and compare the resulting scans for both adjustment latitude and fine detail in the image.
By adjustment latitude I'm referring to how much one can change an adjustment without getting adverse effects.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I have never heard that. Scan several negatives with both full tonal range and with the 0 line section eliminated (B&W points set) and compare the resulting scans for both adjustment latitude and fine detail in the image.
By adjustment latitude I'm referring to how much one can change an adjustment without getting adverse effects.

I agree with you. I suspect the adjustment, if the levels are set 10-180 to match the range of the negative, is just a post scan adjustment by the scanner software that could just as easily be done with a post processing program. You don't get more data setting it with the scan software. But the guy insisted I was wrong.

If this is true, than those suggesting setting levels for each of the three colors are also wrong. True?

What about setting levels with 8 vs 16 bits? Are there difference s there?

 

[shutterfinger]

If this is true, than those suggesting setting levels for each of the three colors are also wrong. True?

I think setting the level for each color may change the color balance of the photo, but maybe not. I have never tried it.

What about setting levels with 8 vs 16 bits? Are there difference s there?

Here there is a definite. Take a tone or group of tones, cut it into 8 pieces, shift each piece to smooth or roughen the tone, can be done. Take the same tone or group of tones, cut them into 16 pieces, changing the tone or group is now easier as there are more pieces to work with.

 

[Ted Baker]

Why is there a difference between 8 and 16 bit?

Math. If you round numbers up or down, you should do it at the end, not at the beginning...

 

[Wallendo]

I always scan at 16-bit resolution and make basic adjustments (exposure, brightness, white point, black point, etc) with a 16-bit image and then downconvert to 8-bit (or 24-bit for color). My monitor doesn't support anything over 8-bit, so I can't really say there's a difference, but I have always felt that this process captures as much useful information as possible within the 8-bit space (or at least sometimes the histograms look nicer).

 

[Ted Baker]

anything over 8-bit, so I can't really say there's a difference,

And you shouldn't really either, 8bit jpeg has been thoughtfully designed so that you should rarely see any difference. However that is different than using it as input format for processing, if you need to make large changes then for this it is not suitable/ideal as you can easily get staircasing etc. Your method as you described has a sound technical basis.

 

[KG4NEL]

In my experience, wet scanning directly on the plate glass produces the best results with that scanner.

I have an Epson 4990, and I'm thinking about using it for 6x7 scanning. Could you go into more detail about the wet scanning process - do you think the results from this older scanner are good enough to justify the larger format?

Thanks!

 

[TonyB65]

I have a Canon Canoscan 9000F II and run Silverfast and get surprisingly good scans from it, even scanning 35mm. Silverfast has an HDR option and it does make a difference, even with black and white film. I have no complaints at all with this scanner, even the film holders work pretty well, and it's not that expensive either.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have used VueScan, it was helping with garbage software which came with non Epson scanner I purchased. VueScan was making difference as working vs not working.
But with Epson flatbed V330 and V500, the Epson software is absolutely superior to VueScan. Where is no dinking with Epson software, it does it perfectly in auto exposure mode.

And all I do after scan is editing for my taste and needs in old, standalone LR. I have no PS, waste of time, IMO.



This is old 50D (2004) ECN2 film, DYS in old Jobo C-41 kit, scanned by Epson V500 with Epson sw and edited in LR 4.4.
Oh, and camera was 1$ Smena-8M.

 

[tedr1]

I have an Epson 4990, and I'm thinking about using it for 6x7 scanning. Could you go into more detail about the wet scanning process - do you think the results from this older scanner are good enough to justify the larger format?

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum.

Please begin a fresh thread with your question, this thread is about a specific subject.

 

[DoryBreaux]

I have had good luck with my v700 so far. I have yet to print anything from it yet, but I will be soon. You need to get your sharpening method dialed. Dont use the EpsonScan unsharp mask; do your sharpening as the final step.

 

[Marameo]

Does white balance take place in LR or in the epson software?

 

[Ted Baker]

If you scan in epson scan as negative, the software will attempt to reproduce the photographic process of making a print, in software. At this time it will attempt make an adjustment for the white balance automatically, you can make further adjustments in the same software, and make further adjustments in LR or something else later. Just save as 16bit tiff if you intend to use LR to make most of your adjustments.