Enlarger light meter or other ways of avoiding wasting paper when making prints?

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I started to use donated to gov course ilford multigrade enlarger. Lecturer defends to use countless papers to find exposure time for each print. Does this damn enlarger have a light meter ?Where? How it is activated ?

 

[koraks]

Please provide specific information on the enlarger and/or multigrade head you're using. Post a photo of the actual setup if you can.

For the popular Ilford 500 system, a light meter is/was available, but it was an optional accessory. I've come across it once or twice, but most setups I've seen, didn't have it.

Here's an example of an Ilford 500 setup without the actual exposure unit/light source. I've circled the metering probe. Also pictured is an accessory foot pedal. Like the probe, it's often not included in the setup.

Note furthermore that Ilford to the best of my knowledge never made any enlargers. But their variable contrast exposure systems are quite common on the second hand market and could be fitted onto several enlarger frames. There are several versions of these units, hence my question to you to please specify what you have there.

Lecturer defends to use countless papers to find exposure time for each print.

Making test strips is a dependable and entirely acceptable way to work towards a first full print. I've done lots of work with probes/meters etc., but ultimately, I've always gone back to test strips/prints as they are an absolutely accurate and intuitive representation of what the actual print will look like. It also requires very little theoretical knowledge to use this approach. I strongly recommend listening carefully to your teacher and following his instructions. Once you understand the basic process, it's much easier to start to explore alternative ways of working.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Thank you koraks , I thought lightmeter should be micro size internal thing. We dont have any of that equipment at your pictures. I dont know why it produced in that big size but not small size. I remember may be 40 years ago , multigrade first found .British technology, I used their drum scanners , studios , colorspace , laser film exposers , all were junk.

 

[koraks]

I thought lightmeter should be micro size internal thing

I think it's easy to understand that anything internal to the enlarger could not be used to determine the contrast range of a negative. There are enlargers with light meters integrated in the head, but these serve the specific function of keeping exposure intensity constant even if voltage fluctuates, the lamp has aged etc. (closed loop system). This does not relate in any way to your challenge regarding contrast control in the prints. Any probes/meters for that purpose are baseboard meters as displayed above. There have been types made by several other manufacturers as well. Color analyzers can usually also be used for this purpose. But as I said, just learn to work with test strips, at least at first.

British technology, I used their drum scanners , studios , colorspace , laser film exposers , all were junk.

When I went to University, one of the professors shared a proverb with us from the domain of information technology: "A fool with a tool is still a fool." There's another saying in my language that goes something like "a poor craftsman will blame his tools."

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I started to darkroom course and lecturer wastes crazy amount of paper for trial . Does keeping notes for exposure and shutter and the light meter values and the normal development make you print without trial. I am talking about 35mm photography.

Or what is the easiest way ?

Come tell this to uncle edward weston , he printed with bulb light.

 

[koraks]

Does keeping notes for exposure and shutter and the light meter values and the normal development make you print without trial. I am talking about 35mm photography.

Notekeeping and standardized exposure + development can give you a good baseline, but this does not account for variations in the contrast of the scenes you will likely photograph. This in turn means you need to control contrast (adjust paper grade/filter) when printing. The easiest way to do this is by using test strips.

There are systems available to automate this; one of the people who can comment on this very well is @Nicholas Lindan. He markets a product for this purpose: https://www.darkroomautomation.com/em.htm It's one modern alternative to the many second-hand products available on the market as well. In general, the idea is that you measure highlights and shadows on the projected image on the baseboard and then calculate the optimal paper grade on this basis. You can also determine a starting point for the exposure time using such a meter, provided you have calibrated it for the paper & developer of your use.

The choice between metering systems and test strips is one that boils down mostly to personal preference/temperament.

 

[thinkbrown]

So my typical way to save paper is just to make small test strips. I'll cut an 8x10 sheet into a 16 1x5" strips and then use those. Typically the first shot off a roll takes me 3 ish tests, and then I can often do other shots on the same roll with minimal testing. In some situations like shooting with my f100 and a speed light the negatives are so consistent that once I've dialed in the first print I can skip doing test strips for any other shot on the roll.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I started to use donated to gov course ilford multigrade enlarger. Lecturer defends to use countless papers to find exposure time for each print. Does this damn enlarger have a light meter ?Where? How it is activated ?

Every one learns to print using test strips. I used to use 1 inch wide strips cut from 10x8 paper.

It's fast and easy.

 

[AnselMortensen]

I recommend the Kodak Projection Print Scale.
It's like a step-wedge, and you can learn a lot from one 4x5 piece of paper when using it.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found kodak projection scale is wonderful and I want to order a digital print at istanbul.

I think it is classified as digital negative and people are using epson printers with pictorico film. But I dont have sources for that technology. Can cheap canon printer or copy center digital photocopy printer - with digital file and transparent film - print it ?
Would canon print work like epson print ?
What should be the resolution ?
Is there a printer calibration step required. I think if print fails , I dont have any knowledge how to correct it on software. I will try another machine or copy center.

Do you know any free digital file for kodak projection scale or lets say any USAF scale as enlarger print scale ?

 

[koraks]

The whole idea of a Kodak projection scale card is that the densities are (1) relatively even and (2) fairly precise. If you were to inkjet print one, you'd run into problems with both of these aspects. An inkjet printer behaves as halfway between a continuous tone and halftone imager, which means you can easily run into problems with dot gain if you use negatives based on inkjet prints. This may be totally OK if you actually print from these negatives, but if you use such a negative as a diagnostic tool like the kodak projection scale, you're setting yourself up for some seemingly inexplicable problems. As to (2), while it's possible to calibrate an inkjet printed negative to specific densities, it's something you'll need to do or specify if you get one of these cards printed.

Overall, you're better off purchasing one of the real items from e.g. eBay.

 

[MattKing]

Umut:
A self-printed projection print scale wouldn't work, unless you replaced all the numbers on it with letter codes, and then used up a whole bunch of paper to develop your own calibration table for it.
The product is/was recently sold under the Delta brand - perhaps you can find one in a retail source you can access.
I have a simple enlarging meter - an old Ilford EM-10 - which gives a bit of help. Basically, I use it to adjust the aperture on the enlarging lens to get the light intensity at the baseboard to a standard level with an empty carrier in the enlarger, then swap that carrier with the one holding the negative, check that the focus is still good, and then make my first test strip.
Basically, all I do with the EM-10 is get things to a place where the first test strip will likely tell me most of what I need. Sometimes it tells me all I need.
I generally only need to use the EM-10 at the beginning of a session, or when I'm changing lenses and film formats. I'd probably need it even less if I had a permanent darkroom setup.
One problem with enlarging meters is that you need to turn out all other lights in the darkroom - including safelights - in order for them to do their job right. That works in an individual darkroom, but can be difficult to arrange in a shared school darkroom.

 

[Paul Howell]

I started to darkroom course and lecturer wastes crazy amount of paper for trial . Does keeping notes for exposure and shutter and the light meter values and the normal development make you print without trial. I am talking about 35mm photography.

Or what is the easiest way ?

Come tell this to uncle edward weston , he printed with bulb light.

If you have tested your film choices for E.I what I call personal ISO, if you use the same developer, same dilution as required at same temp, if your light meter (hand held or TTL) is accurate and you meter consonantly you should an average scene work print with just one test strip. An enlarging meter should get you to same place. Then comes the interesting and much more difficult part, turning a work print into a creative expression. I've printed the same negative a dozen times with dozens of test strip to to achieve my visualization. Where to burn and doge, what grade paper, what paper base, tone or not to tone.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Leica iii 1938 Elmar 5 1938 PHOTO IS HERE

Hello there , my teacher promised to print enlarge one of my photos from last film development session and it is at above.

I used 88 years of age leica , chs ii adox film developed in d76 1+1 8 minutes , original instruction was 7.30 minutes.

I got extremelly high contrast images and extremelly low contrast images from same roll. I think every dark taken images appeared low contrast

We have ilford multigrade enlarger , set contrast to 3.2. Paper ilford multigrade plastic satin 18X24.

If I want to protect the appeareance , should I lower the contrast set , how much ?

 

[koraks]

should I lower the contrast set , how much ?

Yes, make test strips at various lower grades. Your darkroom teacher should be able to guide you through the process.

 

[eli griggs]

First frame or three, a good Grey card, meter these negatives for gray card reproduction, you now have a reasonably calibrated starting point for black, Grey, whites.

 

[Paul Howell]

With a mulitgrade head you can also try split grade printing. Same print, 2 filters, 00 and 5, one test strip for each, ILford has a good online video of the process.

 

[Nige]

Leica iii 1938 Elmar 5 1938 PHOTO IS HERE

Channeling MattKing here... can you post a photo of the negative? i.e. Hold the neg up to the light and take a photo with your phone.

I saw your recent images in the Gallery and they didn't display great on my screen (which is not calibrated but usually pretty good when viewing images, step wedges and the like). They look to me like under-exposed negs that the scanner has tried it's hardest with (esp "Concrete Rock in Sea")

 

[MattKing]

Channeling MattKing here... can you post a photo of the negative? i.e. Hold the neg up to the light and take a photo with your phone.

I saw your recent images in the Gallery and they didn't display great on my screen (which is not calibrated but usually pretty good when viewing images, step wedges and the like). They look to me like under-exposed negs that the scanner has tried it's hardest with (esp "Concrete Rock in Sea")

Good idea.
Umut, see this Resource for what we mean about showing us the negatives: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resou...nsparencies-for-troubleshooting-purposes.461/

 

[craigclu]

A bit obscure perhaps but I've got a Wallner 500 system. It functions by creating an index for each paper batch. When my son and daughter were in musicals, for example: I would do dress rehearsal shots and print a large amount of lobby pictures for the play (usually the following evening) and to give the other actors. It worked perfectly for that sort of high volume, quick turnaround (to me!) printing, requiring a rare re-print as it was very intuitive and designed for this sort of duty.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Please provide specific information on the enlarger and/or multigrade head you're using. Post a photo of the actual setup if you can.

For the popular Ilford 500 system, a light meter is/was available, but it was an optional accessory. I've come across it once or twice, but most setups I've seen, didn't have it.
View attachment 409839
Here's an example of an Ilford 500 setup without the actual exposure unit/light source. I've circled the metering probe. Also pictured is an accessory foot pedal. Like the probe, it's often not included in the setup.

Note furthermore that Ilford to the best of my knowledge never made any enlargers. But their variable contrast exposure systems are quite common on the second hand market and could be fitted onto several enlarger frames. There are several versions of these units, hence my question to you to please specify what you have there.


Making test strips is a dependable and entirely acceptable way to work towards a first full print. I've done lots of work with probes/meters etc., but ultimately, I've always gone back to test strips/prints as they are an absolutely accurate and intuitive representation of what the actual print will look like. It also requires very little theoretical knowledge to use this approach. I strongly recommend listening carefully to your teacher and following his instructions. Once you understand the basic process, it's much easier to start to explore alternative ways of working.

Halleluja to that. but if onefeelsmore comfortable witha¬ight meter mIsuggest RHDesigns. They make oneespecially for the Ilford 500 system!

 

[Ron789]

We have ilford multigrade enlarger , set contrast to 3.2.

Can you post a picture of that enlarger? Ilford never made enlargers, but they did make the Multigrade heads. So I would assume that you refer to an enlarger from some brand equipped with a Multigrade head. I use Multigrade 500 systems on my Leitz Focomat 1c, Leitz Focomat 2c and Durst Laborator 1200; great systems! I also have the light meter probe and use it to get a first indication. After the initial setting as indicated by the Multigrade 500 system I usually need 1 or 2 small test strips to get to a good exposure. Works fast, reliable and saves paper.
Contrast set to 3.2? The Multigrade 500 systems allow full and half grades, like 3, 3 1/2, 4. A setting of 3.2 is not possible on my systems. There was also an earlier version, the 400, and a later version, Ilford Multigrade 600, I have no experience with those versions, maybe those can do a 3.2 grade setting?