Email Campaign to save Kodak HIE-135

[aldevo]

Hi,

did you see the posting from Robert Vonk concerning the situation of IR films in the BW section?

Quote: ".........Due to the fact Kodak has discontinued HIE our Fotohuis has organized all int. Partners, Rollei/Maco (Germany)- Foma Bohemia S.R.O. (Czech Republic) - Moersch Photochemie (Germany) etc. to introduce a new high sensitive IR film on ALL formats.
The risk for such a film project is high, it's difficult to make and more multi-language technicians are involved.
However two main EU manufacturers have this technology, so we will not ask Kodak for assistance."
And furthermore there is the statement from Mirko Boeddecker that they will look at the possibility to design a high speed infrared film based on the Agfa APX 400 emulsion.

I think it is probably better to support these initiatives of the smaller and more flexible european manufacturers.
Let Kodak concentrate on those products which they can do best: Higher volume films and papers with high, exceptional constant quality.
It would be great to see the improvements of TMY-2 also in TMX and TMZ.
And I would like to see the introduction of the Vision 3 technology in our foto films. Two more stops dynamic range and finer grain will be such an improvement, that film will be much more attractive for a lot of digital photographers.

Such improvements are much more important for stabilising the film market. That is the direction all greater film manufacturers have to go.

Best regards,
Jana

Jana - I agree completely. Yours was a very well thought out post!

 

[nighthawkjw]

Keep It Coming...

Hello All,

I am seeing some really good stuff here! Many thanks to the continued support one the campaign. Even the not so positive remarks here are constructive (well, most of them) -- much better than how this thread starts!!! This is the APUG I was hoping to encounter.

I agree with most of the comments here on page 8. Also am glad to see the info about the European partnership and am going to be contacting them.

The campaign has gotten some press coverage, online and in print. I am anticipating an article in the Rochester NY newspaper, Democrat And Chronicle (love those BLUE states!), which will make many employees at Kodak from ground up aware of the campaign.

My personal experiences in conducting this campaign have been widely varied: from making many wonderful new friends to learning of Kodak's decline in detail. Some insights have been learned here and other forums.

I am considering a change of tactics and would like some feedback. One idea is to send examples of what HIE does to Kodak - photos! Either by email or snail-mail. Another idea is to give up on Kodak and send support to others that might make a replacement for HIE.

I sincerely appreciate all of the support. Any and all constructive ideas are welcome. Please contact me with your feedback:
nighthawkjw@gmail.com


Happy New Year,
James C. Williams

 

[Fintan]

For the pure love of photography past and present, would Kodak not be persuaded to teach an alternative company how to manufacture HIE.

It's not like Kodak will have anything to fear in terms of competition as they wont have any product competing with it.

Sure, if HIE isn't profitable enough for Kodak and their shareholders, OK, but pass on the knowledge and equipment for others to make this. That would be a massive PR coup for them at very little cost.

 

[aldevo]

I think people haven't done their research very thoroughly...

According to more than a few folks on the web (one of which, I believe, is Mirkko from Fotoimpex) - HIE is simply too costly to produce any more at low volumes. At least one of the ingredients in the emulsion has simply gotten ridiculously expensive and it's too rich for EK's blood.

I think folks are better off investigating alternatives from other companies.

 

[mikebarger]

I'm glad to see you've changed your campaign to a honest and up front approach rather than your early request asking people to be send Kodak a request to continue a product they actually had no interest in using.

Maybe you could have a gallery section just for prints from this product, seems like someone has stated Kodak lurks here.

Mike

 

[Photo Engineer]

The campaign has gotten some press coverage, online and in print. I am anticipating an article in the Rochester NY newspaper, Democrat And Chronicle (love those BLUE states!), which will make many employees at Kodak from ground up aware of the campaign.

Actually, we often called it the "Demagogue and Comical"! As for being a blue state, most of NY is Red, but NYC is so dense in population and so much in need of government subsidies, it votes overwhelmingly Blue. So, as long as I have lived in NYS, upstate is Red. Of course, the current administration has not helped that position.

As for Kodak, rumors I get from within EK say that Perez has begun to backpedal a bit on analog after seeing some of the results of the survey of professionals, and the problems with storing digital archivally. He is also impressed by the income from film, as it is selling well.

So, stand by and hold onto your hats, there may be a change in the wind at EK. The story is that something is up!

PE

 

[mikebarger]

Ron, sounds like great news in the making.

Mike

 

[Sirius Glass]

The campaign has gotten some press coverage, online and in print. I am anticipating an article in the Rochester NY newspaper, Democrat And Chronicle (love those BLUE states!), which will make many employees at Kodak from ground up aware of the campaign.

Actually, we often called it the "Demagogue and Comical"! ...
So, stand by and hold onto your hats, there may be a change in the wind at EK. The story is that something is up!

PE

PE, quite accurate on the politics. When I lived in Rochester, I would be kidded about the Govenator in Califorinia during lunch at Kodak. At the end of the meal, I would smile and say, "Tease me all you want, when all is said and done you still have Hillary." That was always met with stony silence.

Anyway, back to the first quote, everyone there referred to the newspaper as the "D and C" which sounded like "DNC". I have been many places in the world but Rochester New York is the only place in the world where a man can get a DNC.

Steve

 

[Photo Engineer]

When Marcel Dupre was in town to give a recital at Eastman Theater, the D&C had an abbreviated headline that just killed me.

Famous musician to give organ rec'tal.

The error turned it into a hilarious part B headline. It stayed up on our bulleten boards for a few years.

PE

 

[Snapshot]

Actually, we often called it the "Demagogue and Comical"! As for being a blue state, most of NY is Red, but NYC is so dense in population and so much in need of government subsidies, it votes overwhelmingly Blue. So, as long as I have lived in NYS, upstate is Red. Of course, the current administration has not helped that position.

As for Kodak, rumors I get from within EK say that Perez has begun to backpedal a bit on analog after seeing some of the results of the survey of professionals, and the problems with storing digital archivally. He is also impressed by the income from film, as it is selling well.

So, stand by and hold onto your hats, there may be a change in the wind at EK. The story is that something is up!

PE

This certainly bodes well for film. Hopefully, it's the beginning of better times.

 

[Photo Engineer]

BTW, around here, we call her Billary. You have to recognize that the NYC social welfare is being supported by taxes all across the state so a huge and disproportionate tax burden is on upstate NY.

PE

 

[Terence]

When I went to school in Ithaca, Tompkins County was the ONLY county in Upstate NY (of which there are as many definitions as there are New Yorkers) that voted Democrat. And Ithaca had a Socialist Party mayor.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Terence;

You are right. All generalizations are in error just like this one.



PE

 

[Terence]

Terence;

You are right. All generalizations are in error just like this one.



PE

Wasn't trying to contradict you. I agree with your view of New York.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Terence;

I didn't take your comment badly in any way at all, as I was making too broad a generalization in the first place. Your point was very good and worthwhile. My comment about generalization is of course true but also an oxymoron. Sorry.

PE

 

[nighthawkjw]

I'm glad to see you've changed your campaign to a honest and up front approach rather than your early request asking people to be send Kodak a request to continue a product they actually had no interest in using.

Maybe you could have a gallery section just for prints from this product, seems like someone has stated Kodak lurks here.

Mike

Actually, I was only asking for feedback -- the email campaign has gotten a lot of attention and is continuing to gain momentum. My question was, should there be a change in tactics? And there was never anything less than "honest" about the campaign.

I do like the idea of an HIE gallery! Who is site administrator that can make that happen?

PE, that is great news from your connections with EK! I hope the efforts of all those supporting the campaign had something to do with this.

Sorry to have opened a political can of worms...

~JCW

 

[J.Ed]

In yesterdays' (12/30/07) Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, there was a article regarding the campaign. Sorry to report but the Company line remains "the film is no longer practical to manufacture, given the low demand and volume, the age of the product formulations and the complexity of the processes involved."

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

He [Perez] is also impressed by the income from film, as it is selling well.

It is?

Certainly no disrespect intended, but I've been repeatedly told the market had evaporated, save for a few hardcore users - most of whom live right here. Disruptive technology, and all that.

Is it still MP film that continues to prevent a total collapse?

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes Ken, AFAIK, motion picture leads the sales area, second comes color neg. B&W in the middle and E6 and Kodachrome at the tail end. And, my words "selling well" can be used against me. All things are relative. It is selling well compared to what was expected about 2 years ago or so.

PE

 

[AgX]

We should keep in mind that once there had been `real´ infrared films around from several manufacturers. It is not so that Kodak has got the sole knowledge on that kind of material.
It's rather an issue of economics.

 

[nighthawkjw]

Conclusion

I am writing today to enter a conclusion to this thread. I still get occasional emails regarding the campaign and still wish that things were different. Kodak made their decision and will not change it. I could not sleep at night without knowing that someone had tried to change that decision and so I took the initiative. Hundreds of photographers from around the world sent emails to Kodak, many to me.

I want to thank so many of you who helped spread the word. While the end result is not what we wanted, we let Kodak know that discontinuing HIE-135 has had an impact on the photography community and changed the future of fine art infrared photography.

The good side of this campaign is that the people still working for Kodak now know that there are many people dedicated to film photography. As long as there is a market for film and an economy to support that market, those people will still have jobs.

I spoke with a photography teacher this past week who did not know that HIE had been discontinued, which disappointed her. She told me, however, that she had heard a statistic that over half of the classes that teach digital only don't make (cancel) and that the continuing popularity of classic black and white courses are what may keep film alive and those classes continue to remain popular. I can't source that statistic, but it seems reassuring.

Finally, it is good to note that Kodak has introduced a new formulation for TMAX-400, with a much tighter grain. They also just recently introduced the new Portra 400VC and 160VC color film. Both the TMAX and Portra are quite good and I encourage all reading to try them. Additionally, since HIE was discontinued, Efke and Rollei have introduced new infrared films, in addition to other new formulations. This gives me hope that the future of film photography is not nearly as dire as it seemed. Perhaps one day a manufacturer will take the initiative to produce a film with no anti-halation backing and a sensitivity of 900nm.


Good Light,
James C. Williams

 

[Fintan]

Good for you James, you tried your best.
Thanks.

Fintan