Electronic SLRs: Why are there so few repair reports on the web?

[Andreas Thaler]

As a fan of 80s SLRs, I'm always on the lookout for repair reports online. Unlike mechanical cameras, however, there's very little, or even nothing, to be found for some models.

Why is this?

Cameras like the Nikon F3 and F4, Minolta X and AF, Canon T, and others are popular. Does the word "electronic" scare DIY repairers off? And not just them, but professional repair shops as well?

Why is finding a repair shop that accepts such cameras so difficult? Technical documentation for repairing these SLRs is available. Spare parts are plentiful in cameras of the same type.

On the other hand, there are countless user reports on these cameras. This shows that they are popular and not forgotten.

But why do so few people report on repairs?

 

[forest bagger]

It is because of the mixing mechanics and electronics together, I think.
DIY repairers have to learn not only the the mechanics and the electronics but the interaction between these parts, too.
Professional repair shops eschew the use of spare parts they had to remove from other cameras of the same type - because of warranty issues and the huge ammount of needed working time .

 

[Andreas Thaler]

It is because of the mixing mechanics and electronics together, I think.

On the other hand, electronics can simplify the design.

Where complex mechanisms transmit information and power, this can be done electronically via an electronic control system and wires to actuators.

However, this simplification comes at the expense of traceability.

While the operation of a mechanical mechanism can be tracked (to a certain extent), with electronic implementations, this is only possible through measurements.

DIY repairers have to learn not only the the mechanics and the electronics but the interaction between these parts, too.
Professional repair shops eschew the use of spare parts they had to remove from other cameras of the same type - because of warranty issues and the huge ammount of needed working time .

But the question of replacement parts applies to purely mechanical cameras just as much?

Whether I remove an electronic component, for example, an IC or an entire circuit board, or a mechanical mechanism for the self-timer, should the effort be comparable?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Then it's true that the electronics are the barrier.

But that doesn't have to be the case, because the basics required to repair electronic SLRs are straightforward.

There's no need for complicated calculations or complex measuring methods if you limit yourself to fix the common, typical faults of every camera.

Much more important are practical skills such as soldering under not always easy conditions and, of course, working with fragile parts.

But this is even more the case with mechanical cameras.

Since the processes in electronic SLRs are largely invisible, good troubleshooting and repair instructions are needed. These documents are publicly available; you just have to work through them.

That's why I'm surprised that few or no one does this - at least online.

People would rather repeat the same, pointless, quick fixes in discussions than actually delve into the causes and possible solutions themselves.

My favorite, the Canon T90, has to endure a lot. It's been banged on the table, left running in HIGH motor mode for an hour, etc.

I often get the impression that many users can never imagine looking behind the case. But that doesn't have to be the case.

One day with an introductory book on the basics of electronics (voltage, current, resistance, most important electronic components) and three days of soldering exercises and you're done.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I'm considering creating a DIY tutorial on this. 100 percent practical, with only the necessary minimum of theory. I'll link practical examples from my project reports.

Would anyone be interested in this?

Or are there better ideas, or criticism?

---

I have to admit, I enjoy writing here, and I'm pleased that the posts are well-read (including by external users), but we could be even more productive if I weren't the only one doing this, most of the time.

Why isn't anyone doing anything about, say, the Canon AE-1, for which there's excellent technical documentation, or the Nikon F4, or the Minolta XD, etc. for which this also applies.

These cameras generate a lot of attention, users praise them in countless video blogs, but no one wants to DIY repair or service them?

 

[fdonadio]

I have a Nikon F4 I got as I gift from a friend. In almost perfect working condition, but the teeth in the take up spool were all missing. There’s a thread here about it.

Long story short: I took two F4 bodies a technician, so he could use the spool from one of them to replace the other, but he decided not to disassemble any cameras He just made metal pins and put the on the working camera’s spool.

This camera sometimes doesn’t advance film. It’s like the end of the film’s been reached, but it’s not. It takes capping the lens, turning the camera off and on, then firing a couple (or more) times to have it advance.

I have no idea how and who could fix this. I am not sure if electric motors get “tired” with time or if it’s just dirt or gunk. Anyway, most of the camera must be disassembled to reach the motor… and no one seems to want to do it.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I have no idea how and who could fix this. I am not sure if electric motors get “tired” with time or if it’s just dirt or gunk. Anyway, most of the camera must be disassembled to reach the motor… and no one seems to want to do it.

This isn't the solution to the problem your F4 is experiencing. But disassembling the camera to that extent is doable; there are instructions that should make it possible for anyone willing to get started:

Nikon F4 Repair Article

Article from the Society of Photo-Technologists Journal

learncamerarepair.com

Even if the F4 looks like a battleship

Nikon F4: Mission Aperture Lever - two ways to fix the aperture problem

{Moderator note 12 Jan 25: five threads on the F4/F4S aperture lever repair have been merged into the present thread. You may encounter one or two dead links to 'other' threads. The posts they pointed to, are now all part of this thread, which mostly still follows the journey in a logical and...

www.photrio.com

 

[Andreas Thaler]

This camera sometimes doesn’t advance film. It’s like the end of the film’s been reached, but it’s not. It takes capping the lens, turning the camera off and on, then firing a couple (or more) times to have it advance.

I don't understand the thing about covering the lens. But if the motor isn't running, you should be able to hear it.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

No auto load or film advance, spool motor runs or attempts to run.

ibid., p. 29

This could be a starting point.

You could point your technician to the document (link above). It also includes instructions for disassembling the F4.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

At first glance, it might seem complicated, but it's not if you work through it step by step.

The Nikon Service Manual for the F4 is a supplement. It contains a lot of information, but it's all very concise, as it was apparently aimed at service personnel already trained by Nikon.

Nikon F4 Repair Manual

Nikon F4 factory repair manual

learncamerarepair.com

The SPT Journal always also describes things concisely but in a more generally understandable way, and the photos help you get your bearings. I wouldn't attempt a repair without this documents.

If you deal with the topic, you have good chances even DIY, you just must not give up

 

[Andreas Thaler]

There are also troubleshooting instructions for film transport, from page 29 (PDF):

Nikon F4 Repair and Support Manual

Nikon F4 factory diagnostic manual

learncamerarepair.com

 

[BrianShaw]

...

Why is finding a repair shop that accepts such cameras so difficult? Technical documentation for repairing these SLRs is available. Spare parts are plentiful in cameras of the same type.

On the other hand, there are countless user reports on these cameras. This shows that they are popular and not forgotten.

But why do so few people report on repairs?

For nearly as long as I've been alive, the repair philosophy has been based in the concept of LRU.

Line-replaceable unit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Manufacturers support the pipleine of repair parts for a certain amount of time and sometimes we are lucky that other parts vendors supplement with aftermarket parts. Thise are the sources that professional repair shops use. Folks like us will also seek out NOS parts and executing repairs below the level of LRU. That lower level repair is very tedious, if not difficult, to accomplish so for professional repair folks and the customer it often puts those repairs in the realm of not being economically feasible. That is a critical concept that tends to get lost in the nostolgia of using vintage equipment,

It seems that the number of people who have the interest or talent to learn camera repairs is fairly limited. We see them here on Photrio and on a couple of Facebook sites. But we are a rare breed and a small population. The complexity of electronic repairs is even more limiting; hence, an even smaller population. A small part of a small population is tiny. I believe that is why we se so few people report on electronic repairs. We are talking to ourselves because there are very few people!

Regarding post #4, it is hopeless to judge the world by comparing them to our individual interests and abilities. Those kind of expectations will simply lead to frustration. At least we have the few people with common interests that we have. It's a labor of love and those kind of labors are often very lonely...

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Regarding post #4, it is hopeless to judge the world by comparing them to our individual interests and abilities. Those kind of expectations will simply lead to frustration. At least we have the few people with common interests that we have. It's a labor of love and those kind of labors are often very lonely...

That's another reason why it's important to inspire others, or at least interest them.

I'm convinced that unrealistic expectations hold people back from DIY. Because everyone says it's so complicated, they don't even try.

Yes, you need a steady hand, patience, and perseverance, but if you put on the magnifying glasses, this small world doesn't seem so small anymore.

I have no reputation to lose here so I'm conducting a survey to see if a DIY electronic SLR repair/service tutorial has any interest.

Not because I'm qualified to do it, but someone has to

 

[Andreas Thaler]

It seems that the number of people who have the interest or talent to learn camera repairs is fairly limited. We see them here on Photrio and on a couple of Facebook sites. But we are a rare breed and a small population. The complexity of electronic repairs is even more limiting; hence, an even smaller population.

But there are people who repair old tube radios, restore 1970s Mercedes SELs, or repair watches. There aren't that few of them, if you look online.

So cameras can't be an exception!

 

[fdonadio]

I don't understand the thing about covering the lens. But if the motor isn't running, you should be able to hear it.

When the camera fails to advance the film, the red light on the back goes on and the camera won’t do anything else, besides rewinding. So, the trick to make it advance the film is to turn it off and on again (which clears the fault), then press the shutter button again. If I do this without covering the lens, it will expose the film again.

Thanks for all the material. The problem occurs every now and then, but not so often. It would be nice to get it fixed, but the camera still works.

 

[BrianShaw]

But there are people who repair old tube radios, restore 1970s Mercedes SELs, or repair watches. There aren't that few of them, if you look online.

So cameras can't be an exception!

No, cameras aren't an exception at all. All "old things" hobbies has the same isssues and concerns... and some folks who actually do repairs that include the near impossible. In any/all of these categories, the numbers seem small compared to the population at large. Maybe things are vastly different where you live, but I doubt it.

 

[4season]

But there are people who repair old tube radios, restore 1970s Mercedes SELs, or repair watches. There aren't that few of them, if you look online.

So cameras can't be an exception!

You can be a lone rebel!

Today, I regard AA-powered cameras as an awkward adolescence, and really don't feel the need to shoot high-speed bursts of film at today's film prices, but I suppose 2x AA isn't too bad. Loved Nikon F4 (with smaller battery pack!) when it was a current model, really appreciated the metering, but not the noisy and so-so autofocus. I saw the F5, and bought a Leica M6 instead. Leica M taught me that I could actually do a lot with just 35/2 and 50/2.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

You can be a lone rebel!

But I'm not, otherwise my project contributions wouldn't have so many views

I think it's because electronics has a bad reputation. Complicated, cheap, and not worth repairing. Perhaps I could help put that in a better light.

Or is it also because people are afraid of effort and work? Which is a shame, because that's how you make progress, no matter what you do.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

No, cameras aren't an exception at all. All "old things" hobbies has the same isssues and concerns... and some folks who actually do repairs that include the near impossible. In any/all of these categories, the numbers seem small compared to the population at large. Maybe things are vastly different where you live, but I doubt it.

Maybe it's also a matter of communication.

Anything that isn't shown in 30 seconds on TikTok doesn't reach the audience

And indeed, if you search for videos about "Canon T90 EEE HELP," you'll find such works. Always the same useless fixes that are quick to do

But nothing gets better that way.

It's the same with everything, from camera repair to image capture, image editing, and presentation.

Scanning is a good example, and so is Photoshop. You have to get used to it, then you'll have control.

I don't understand how people can settle for such a lukewarm approach. It's a waste of time.

 

[4season]

But I'm not, otherwise my project contributions wouldn't have so many views

I think it's because electronics has a bad reputation. Complicated, cheap, and not worth repairing. Perhaps I could help put that in a better light.

Or is it also because people are afraid of effort and work? Which is a shame, because that's how you make progress, no matter what you do.

You are providing people with a form of entertainment, much as Norm Goldberg once did with his lab reports.

I think the problem with camera repairs is that rewards are not guaranteed, and a good deal of effort may be required before you achieve anything meaningful. And although many people say they want to slow down and feel more connected to the craft of photography, what they really want is a modern camera which looks old, and which can simulate the look of film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

My electronic SLR nikon N6006 works perfectly, including the shutter, meter, auto and manual settings etc. It's 30 or 35 years old. And although I haven't used it that much, it works perfectly now. If it was to break, I could probably get another one for under a $100. So why would I pay to repair it?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

So why would I pay to repair it?

If you repair it yourself, it will cost you USD 0 and you will have preserved something that is no longer manufactured.

That's not nothing, is it?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

You are providing people with a form of entertainment, much as Norm Goldberg once did with his lab reports.

Maybe I should make videos after all. News from the House of Electronic Scrap …

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I think the problem with camera repairs is that rewards are not guaranteed, and a good deal of effort may be required before you achieve anything meaningful.

But it is precisely this challenge that drives others to climb mountains.

It is wonderful to set yourself a goal and then achieve it!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you repair it yourself, it will cost you USD 0 and you will have preserved something that is no longer manufactured.

That's not nothing, is it?

Well my Nikormat camera is broken. The meter is intermittent. I understand that it is not fixable. It's it?