Ektachrome is back......

[trendland]

Thread piracy warning

"Pirates" are wellcome to Trendland :

with regards

PS : If there is "information" on a post like above !

In other cases :

........

 

[trendland]

I think E6 was always though of as superior as it was fine grained whilst C41 back in the day wasn't
The advent of Ektar, Portra and Fuji Pro changed that somewhat. A fine grain equivalent with E6 whilst having a wider latitude.
I think people shoot E6 for either the colour palate of a particular stock, or of course if they want to project.

If people shoot colour film commercially now it's mostly Portra or Fuji Pro as opposed to Kodachrome or E6 previously.

Back in the days Kodachrome was fine grained whilst E6 (back in the days) wasn't.

with regards

PS : Remember this c41 film :

 

[trendland]

Concerning grain :

We should not forget (if we remember Super 8 back in the days) that the discontinuation of Kodachrome 40 and the following repalcement with 100 D was not the best deal to many
Super8 shooters. (They were not amused concerning grain of Ektachrome 100D).

Some of them changed to Velvia 50 in limided Super 8 cut and exposed Velvia at ISO40.

with regards

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well, the print films are what are viewed in the theater. And they are 35 mm. With a little thought, those of you that shoot color neg could adapt their workflows to allow for positives to be made from this film. Of course, no one things of that and there are long threads on ECN in-camera use, but then making slides are lost on them. I've done a lot of that in the past. But then I went to prints instead.

Color positive is NOT superior, it is inferior to a slide made via the neg-pos workflow, but was obsoleted by scanners and thus the products were cancelled. You can make superior scans of negatives vs reversal by the same method if done properly.

Also BTDT. You cannot achieve the same level of color correction and image tone scale in a reversal product that you can in a neg-pos system. It is as simple as that.

PE

Hence the reason that Kodak left the color slide market to Fuji and concentrated on the C-41 market. Fuji went the other way.

 

[Lachlan Young]

]

We should not forget (if we remember Super 8 back in the days) that the discontinuation of Kodachrome 40 and the following repalcement with 100 D was not the best deal to many
Super8 shooters. (They were not amused concerning grain of Ektachrome 100D).

Something sounds off about your claims. From all available evidence, E100G had slightly finer grain than K40.

PS : Remember this c41 film :

And Ektar 100 of today is aimed at delivering the same grain level.

 

[trendland]

Something sounds off about your claims. From all available evidence, E100G had slightly finer grain than K40.




And Ektar 100 of today is aimed at delivering the same grain level.

With every single step from emulsion improvements in the past - ALL manufacturers stated : "Better from grain characteristics in comparison to the old type with lower speed". But reality was allways different. So it was stated in regard of marketing. And in regard of pricing. Remember manufacturers anouncements like ISO 200 films are the films with new ISO standard. (ISO 50 films saw discontinuation then) Later ISO 400 came to a new standard (better and smaler grained in comparison
to old ISO 100 Films ? REALY ? ) ISO 800 was prepared for a new (smallest grained ISO class) and if you remember ISO 800 films had seen improvements but also highest pricings.
But we can not remember an ISO 800 standard speed right ? The simple reason for that missing ISO standard was : DIGITAL ! Digital was faster.
Don't mix marketing speach with technical reality.

with regards

PS : I realy like E100G but pls. remember the starting campaign with that improved films 100G,100GX,100VS :
" grain - free " - I would like to state : " some of this E100G "GRAIN - FREE " GRAIN is remaining in bigger enlargements - isn't it?
PPS : Same is with EKTAR100 : marketing anounced it "smaller grained in comparison to EKTAR25 and it has much more speed with its ISO100" That's Fake News !
Reality showes : Smaler grained in comparison to EKTAR1000 and with less speed.

 

[trendland]

Hence the reason that Kodak left the color slide market to Fuji and concentrated on the C-41 market. Fuji went the other way.

Sirius Glass : Kodak left the color slide market to Fuji not from technical reasons !
Kodak left it in regard of production costs on E6 films and highest financial trouble (last was not caused from E6 but from insufficiently management).
From logical reasons Kodak hold on C41 films (moderate production costs) in addition a relative high demand with c41 standard films, on the background of same financial trouble caused from insufficiently management (not from financial trouble with Kodak Gold).

with regards

PS : At last it obviously had to do with Kodak Gold sellings because the high earnings from that emulsion didn't flush that billions in Kodaks cash register any longer that would had been necessary to compensate bad management decisions made 1998 - 2003.

 

[AgX]

There was a great side I remember "shotonfilm.com" but I can't find this side now. It seams to be it is offline...?
That would answer our questions about the use of motion picture film today ...,.

Not at all. You mix things up.
I know which movies are shot on film.

I replied on PE's remark on print film being sold to Hollywood.

 

[trendland]

Not at all. You mix things up.
I know which movies are shot on film.

I replied on PE's remark on print film being sold to Hollywood.

Of course there are still productions with movies wich are shot on film. But this side I remember is away.
You may notice the use of 65mm Vision3 (Quentin Tarantino) there are some productions with
35mm Vision3 of course it is the same with 16mm.
But have a short look on an Arri Rental side ! That isn't very New because it began 2009 ! It proceed between 2010 - 2014 dramatical.
What I covered out is : The marked domination of Motion Picture Film is long time away....!

To print film ( CINEMA coppies) it is more worst. Because it began 1999 ? (Digital projection )
And (with volume) it proceed the early 2000th.

At last I can imagine that the demand on print film is more (much more). So you will find print film on Kodak sides for a further while.

The high demand on print film is in concern of the remaining theaters without digital production.
And there are still some remaining worldwide.

Much more than you have with different "takes" of the same scene during a Hollywood Movie Shooting.Think about.

with regards

PS : How many "takes" did Coppola shot on each scene of "Apocalypse Now" ? ENDLESS !
And how many scenes he shot he can't use in the final cut of his film? (he shot enough for a 12hours lenght of Apocalypse Now).
I guess if he hasn't been such smart to decide on Co. production of his own - Studio bosses might had sent murderers to the Philipines (shooting scene).
Notice : The total number of copies you need for remaining theaters is much much more in comparison Coppola has been able to waste camera film.
And today's workflow is much different to a "crazy Coppola workflow"

 

[Cholentpot]

Back in the days Kodachrome was fine grained whilst E6 (back in the days) wasn't.

with regards

PS : Remember this c41 film :
View attachment 210321

I've got a few rolls of this in my freezer

 

[trendland]

I've got a few rolls of this in my freezer

Would you state it is "finer grained" in comparison on today,s Ektar100.?
To me it is (ok there is a little advantage with EKTAR25) .......but in fact it is with smaller grain.
Therefore one should imagine what a phantastic resolution Ektar, E100, and others would like to serve
in ISO25 version.

with regards

 

[Lachlan Young]

With every single step from emulsion improvements in the past - ALL manufacturers stated : "Better from grain characteristics in comparison to the old type with lower speed". But reality was allways different. So it was stated in regard of marketing. And in regard of pricing. Remember manufacturers anouncements like ISO 200 films are the films with new ISO standard. (ISO 50 films saw discontinuation then) Later ISO 400 came to a new standard (better and smaler grained in comparison
to old ISO 100 Films ? REALY ? ) ISO 800 was prepared for a new (smallest grained ISO class) and if you remember ISO 800 films had seen improvements but also highest pricings.
But we can not remember an ISO 800 standard speed right ? The simple reason for that missing ISO standard was : DIGITAL ! Digital was faster.
Don't mix marketing speach with technical reality.

with regards

PS : I realy like E100G but pls. remember the starting campaign with that improved films 100G,100GX,100VS :
" grain - free " - I would like to state : " some of this E100G "GRAIN - FREE " GRAIN is remaining in bigger enlargements - isn't it?
PPS : Same is with EKTAR100 : marketing anounced it "smaller grained in comparison to EKTAR25 and it has much more speed with its ISO100" That's Fake News !
Reality showes : Smaler grained in comparison to EKTAR1000 and with less speed.

If you want to see who's inventing nonsense & calling it 'truth', get a mirror. You clearly have neither the analytical wherewithal or the willingness to test your claims.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ektachrome films through E4 were pretty grainy and unsharp. They were certainly unsuitable for use in large magnification uses such as motion picture, even without duplication. Negative films were usable in spite of the comments above. Kodachrome was also usable, but the prints suffered from duplication loss as I described above.

ECP (Eastman Color Print) films are still being made at KP, so you tell me where it is going? Is it being coated and then destroyed? Or, is it being shipped somewhere. Well, both Hollywood and Bollywood are using it and some theaters are still projecting it.

PE

 

[AgX]

ECP (Eastman Color Print) films are still being made at KP, ... Well, both Hollywood and Bollywood are using it and some theaters are still projecting it.

India was leading in cinema digitisation, even ahead of Germany.
2014 was said to be the year to reach 100% digitisation in India, and to all my information this has come true.

 

[AgX]

For those many of you in a hurry, Ektachrome is listed as in stock at the warehouse of Fotoimpex in Germany.

Warehouse already out of stock.
This likely shows how how scarcely this film is being distributed.

 

[trendland]

In

Ektachrome films through E4 were pretty grainy and unsharp. They were certainly unsuitable for use in large magnification uses such as motion picture, even without duplication. Negative films were usable in spite of the comments above. Kodachrome was also usable, but the prints suffered from duplication loss as I described above.

ECP (Eastman Color Print) films are still being made at KP, so you tell me where it is going? Is it being coated and then destroyed? Or, is it being shipped somewhere. Well, both Hollywood and Bollywood are using it and some theaters are still projecting it.

PE

Hello PE,

let me state : it is a real hart task to find a theatre without digital projection in Europe today. It should be nearly the same in the US.

Nevertheless you are right concerning ECP ! I will agree 100% ( some others may think now : no need to Trendland to agree PE's expertises at any time....)

Because one should expect that PE is right

I stated it before but perhaps it was a bit missleading in post #159.

Again (I will try my best) : During shooting for example a Hollywood Movie the scale of expired Vision3
Film may be 20 Times more in concern to the final lenght of the full movie.
(Coppola had a need of x 100 scales in his early days).

So if we just speculate that there are 21 theatre without digital projection remaining (worldwide) - and they all will show this film and need a copy - you soon have the need of more ECP in comparison on Vision3.
I also guess you'll find this 21 theatre in India and Agx is right with Bollywood (100%digital) but in reality 100% means 99,68%!
So it is a need of ECP manufacturing much much more from scales in comparison to Vision3.
Because in different regions worldwide you may find lots of conventionally equipped cinemas.
(More than 100)

with greetings to you in Rochester

 

[AgX]

In

Again (I will try my best) : During shooting for example a Hollywood Movie the scale of expired Vision3
Film may be 20 Times more in concern to the final lenght of the full movie.
(Coppola had a need of x 100 scales in his early days).

So if we just speculate that there are 21 theatre without digital projection remaining (worldwide) - and they all will show this film and need a copy - you soon have the need of more ECP in comparison on Vision3.
I also guess you'll find this 21 theatre in India and Agx is right with Bollywood (100%digital) but in reality 100% means 99,68%!

Basically you are right that if only a dozen release copies for cinemas are made of a movie that itself is taken on film, the overall need of film for this movie already doubles.

BUT in the past there came hundreds of copies on a movie, the relation thus was at least 10/1.

BUT cinemas not yet changed to digital are 2nd tier ones and those are not served first with new releases anyway. Thus there will never be a need to serve these with several copies, but one copy would be sufficiant to serve hundred cinemas over time.
If they are served at all. Production/Release firms already cancelled any movie release on film

 

[trendland]

If you want to see who's inventing nonsense & calling it 'truth', get a mirror. You clearly have neither the analytical wherewithal or the willingness to test your claims.

He he he....Lachlan Young - so you are the expert with EKTAR25 and EVERYTHING is fine - Ok !?

with regards

PS : Kodak and Leica (today Leica Camera AG) started a joint venture during the 90th to show
what 35mm can support at its maximum.
Leica hired the best proffessionas, Kodak sponsored their best film (Ektar25) and the finishing without digital was made from best lab experts.
As a result enlargements up to 1meter showed the superb quality.
So this was a demonstration effect to make clear what you'll get from superb Leica M lenses at its best with Kodaks best Film : Grain what is nearly not visible at 1 Meter enlargements from 35mm film !
Till today they never reached it again because there is no film avaible to top EKTAR25 smallest grain. Ektar100 is also superb and with smallest grain and it has ISO100 - great (but Ektar25 was better)

 

[trendland]

Basically you are right that if only a dozen release copies for cinemas are made of a movie that itself is taken on film, the overall need of film for this movie already doubles.

BUT in the past there came hundreds of copies on a movie, the relation thus was at least 10/1.

BUT cinemas not yet changed to digital are 2nd tier ones and those are not served first with new releases anyway. Thus there will never be a need to serve these with several copies, but one copy would be sufficiant to serve hundred cinemas over time.
If they are served at all. Production/Release firms already cancelled any movie release on film

Yes right (I didn't want to state this issue in such direct form) = the demand on printfilm saw a lost of
-90%.... perhaps it is a bit more !

with regards

PS : It was that great hope in the past : If digital reached the amatheuric sector in photography (professionells used digital since some years) what is remaining then ?
CINEMA production with film ! AND - thousand of coppies of each big Hollywood Movie showing in theatres worldwide!

But digital in CINEMA projection was the fastest change behind professional photographers caused from 2 main reasons : 1) imense costs for film copies (some cinemas had the need for a second copie of the same film in the longer run) 2) to prevent pirate edition of brand New first class Hollywood Films.

with regards

PS : The second point was illosory

 

[Lachlan Young]

(but Ektar25 was better)

Prove it. With scientifically acceptable testing. Not with a load of speculative nonsense, rumours and general garbage or out of date contexts.

 

[trendland]

Prove it. With scientifically acceptable testing. Not with a load of speculative nonsense, rumours and general garbage or out of date contexts.

What was the biggest print you ever made with EKTAR25 Lachlan? ........

with regards

PS : You had better not use that "mirror argument" above - I will give it back now.

PPS : Perhaps you should prove it ?

 

[Prest_400]

Ektachrome films through E4 were pretty grainy and unsharp. They were certainly unsuitable for use in large magnification uses such as motion picture, even without duplication. Negative films were usable in spite of the comments above. Kodachrome was also usable, but the prints suffered from duplication loss as I described above.
PE

I'm curious how for the Apollo programme (IIRC) they used Ektachrome and not other options, for color. I guess Kodachrome had some color fidelity pitfalls given the example of red trashcans becoming too beautiful and Color Negative workflow wasn't as developed then.
Edit: I just remembered Kodachrome wasn't available in 120 back then. Though I guess if resources were mobilized, they'd manufacture it in 70mm for the missions.

 

[trendland]

I'm curious how for the Apollo programme (IIRC) they used Ektachrome and not other options, for color. I guess Kodachrome had some color fidelity pitfalls given the example of red trashcans becoming too beautiful and Color Negative workflow wasn't as developed then.
Edit: I just remembered Kodachrome wasn't available in 120 back then. Though I guess if resources were mobilized, they'd manufacture it in 70mm for the missions.

Hi Prest 400,
I guess you are right with Kodachrome - I am not so very sure about the early 70th but if I remember
correct Kodachrome was served within the beginning 80th in midt format. And later of course (but to late for Appolo misions)

From the budget NASA was given for their missions (some money indeed) we should wonder about that Kodak saw no way to this time to serve an interims 70mm confected Kodachrome ?

But perhaps there were other reasons to come to early EKTACHROME (E4)...?

with regards

 

[Photo Engineer]

Don't get me wrong. Ektachrome of any generation can make beautiful images comparable to any other film or better. But, it must be exposed and processed correctly and printing it without masks is difficult.

NASA and the USAF had state of the art facilities to expose and process all images from any space expedition, and they did use some color neg.

PE

 

[trendland]

Don't get me wrong. Ektachrome of any generation can make beautiful images comparable to any other film or better. But, it must be exposed and processed correctly and printing it without masks is difficult.

NASA and the USAF had state of the art facilities to expose and process all images from any space expedition, and they did use some color neg.

PE

Understand : So NASA and USAF performed ALL films on its max. possible top. That sounds very logical - sure they did.
So E4 Ektachromes came out of different labs at this time wasn't ALLWAYS the best.

with regards

PS : Can't realy remember E4 Films......