Ektachrome E-1 Processing Kit Unopened Should I Open?

Photo Engineer · Aug 17, 2016

All companies used a variety of color developing agent depending on product and desired features. These changed many times for any given product.

PE

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

THE 60 YEAR OLD VIRGIN LIVES!

First roll of Provia F is hanging to dry. Bracketed 1 stop high and low with the F5 in P auto. The +1 EV looks about perfect, looks like it's yielding about ISO 50 . Next roll I will set ISO in manual at 32 and do the same. I think that LAG has it right the roll Ektachrome of this era is 32 ASA. I had 1st Developer coming out of the processor back into the bottle at 74.7 F so I think Temps were good. Film is still wet but with an LED flash light shining through the color looks great . I used a extremely bright LED flashlight for reversal gave it about a minute and a half right on the Jobo reel. I used about 300 mL of solution in a 1520 tank. It was all it could hold.
The chemicals dissolved easily, with a magnetic stirrer at room temperature. I had a hard time getting the NaOH out of the little bottle, finally put on my face shield added some water to the bottle, as expected it got warm in my gloved hand but came out no problem.
I must say I'm shocked. This stuff must have been stored at 10 C for the last 60 years. I will get some images up as soon as possible. I'm going to try a couple more rolls then it's gone. I'm using it one shot to try to keep it simple.
Extraordinary, Quite frankly!
Best regards Mike

AgX · Aug 17, 2016

mshchem said:
I had a hard time getting the NaOH out of the little bottle, finally put on my face shield added some water to the bottle, as expected it got warm in my gloved hand but came out no problem.

That was likely the first thing we learned in chemical class not to do.
You are a bold chemist nevertheless...
Well... a shielded one,.

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

AgX said:
That was likely the first thing we learned in chemical class not to do.
You are a bold chemist nevertheless...
Well... a shielded one,.

In a previous "life" I made up 50L batches of 50% NaOH solutions for Kjeldahl Nitrogen assays. Nothing to it. There was only about 2 grams of NaOH in the bottle. The exciting part of the old school Kjeldahl method was layering the NaOH solution over the conc. Sulfuric Acid in the flask. If you did it right you would get the flask hooked up to the distillation column before you "Swirled" the flask to mix the solutions, there was a glass trap on top of the flask to keep the flask from blowing the contents straight through the column. It got kind of exciting sometimes. Now they have auto analyzers. Just push a button.
Mike

LAG · Aug 17, 2016

Exscue me

I'm glad to hear you've had such a good fortune, it was worth it! ... but only a couple of rolls?, use it until exhausted! (even exhausted). Prewash the films you use to extend the working life of chemicals. Congratulations!

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

LAG said:
Exscue me

I'm glad to hear you've had such a good fortune, it was worth it! ... but only a couple of rolls?, use it until exhausted! (even exhausted). Prewash the films you use to extend the working life of chemicals. Congratulations!

I have looked at the film dry. It's quite underexposed for the process. The film numbering is barely visible which indicates to me that if I would extend 1st Developer time or raise the temperature it could be made to work at the proper speed. I think at these conditions ISO is about 25 max. I'm going to try a couple more rolls see what I get. One other thing that occurred to me is the 1st Developer volume may be to small. I may try a bigger tank.
At this point all I'm interested in is seeing if I can get a couple decent looking transparencies just to say that I did it.
I must say this gives me a whole new appreciation for modern films and chemistry. It takes about an hour and a half start to finish. With out my Jobo it would have been a real job.
Best Regards Mike

LAG · Aug 17, 2016

mshchem said:
I have looked at the film dry. It's quite underexposed for the process. The film numbering is barely visible which indicates to me that if I would extend 1st Developer time or raise the temperature it could be made to work at the proper speed.

Or ... it might be a chemical degradation (First Developer) that's the first thing i'd think about. Did you finally use it at 75F, didn't you? (do you remember i said 77F?) Time used?

mshchem said:
At this point all I'm interested in is seeing if I can get a couple decent looking transparencies just to say that I did it.

I undestand, that's the safest and prudent attitude

mshchem said:
It takes about an hour and a half start to finish

I know that feeling, but imagine all that time without any sign of final reward ... i know that feeling too!

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

Just for the record here is a underexposed (Underdeveloped) image from the Provia 100F that I ran through the E-1 kit. I think I will shoot another roll at ISO 25 and bracket 1/2 stops both sides. And then I'm done. It's interesting that it works. But I would rather spend my time doing something more productive. Kinda looks Retro. Maybe Lomo (not sure who they are) should make up some of this stuff and sell it at Freestyle. I'm going to go order a new Fujichrome Kit from Freestyle. Time to stock up for fall colors and I'm not doing it this way Best Mike

stefan4u · Aug 17, 2016

@mshchem.

May I ask what you mean by „numbers are barely visible“? Is your developed film to bright, or too dark??
Edit: uuups, too late... Anyway, phantastic results
stefan

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

stefan4u said:
@mshchem.

May I ask what you mean by „numbers are barely visible“? Is your developed film to bright, or too dark??
Edit: uuups, too late... Anyway, phantastic results
stefan

The frame numbers that are pre exposed by Fuji are barely visible, my conclusion is either the 1st Developer is either less active due to age or my Jobo is oxidizing it, or I don't have enough active developer in the tank due to the low volume used by the Jobo, Or most likely it's a miracle that it works at all. I did say a Hail Mary and invoked Veronica the Patron saint of Photographers and Laundry workers.
I'm going to repeat the process set the ISO to 25 and bracket 1 stop. I'm also going to use a longer Jobo tank that will hold 600ML of solution just to make sure that I'm not overwhelming the poor old elderly developer.
Thank God for E6
Best Mike

mshchem · Aug 17, 2016

Here's a 6 stop dynamic range cat in late afternoon sun blazing in through a window developed in 60 year old chemistry. Her name is Margot Lane

stefan4u · Aug 18, 2016

Congratulations again

Are you still doing that process at 75°F ? 10 min. in the FD?

Don’t think that the developer lost so much activity, the modern color films are simply designed for higher temperatures. You need the higher temperature for penetrating all the layers…

I would increase the process temperature to at least 30°C / 86°F, stay with the 10-12 minutes FD time and bracketing 3 pictures around 50 ASA. Depending on the results maybe further adapting of the temperature... (if you still have chemicals and time to spendt...)

If using outdated film, a combination of overexposing and a pull processing is quite a good idea…

Edit:
Have a look to that arista pfd, page 2. http://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/product_pdfs/arista/AristaE6.pdf
For 85°F they propose 16.5 minutes for normal (E6) development. 70°F will show density and color shifts... Not really comparable, but a kind of reference point...

All the best, stefan

Photo Engineer · Aug 18, 2016

Lower temp processing of modern color products will cause severe overall problems with speed, grain, sharpness and color. The majority of this is due to diffusion of chemicals in the process inward, and emulsion chemicals outward.

PE

mshchem · Aug 18, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Lower temp processing of modern color products will cause severe overall problems with speed, grain, sharpness and color. The majority of this is due to diffusion of chemicals in the process inward, and emulsion chemicals outward.

PE

Ok, so do I bracket again at rated ISO and raise temperature to 85F? It’s definitely way under developed but the solutions are clear not muddy at all. It looks better than the Tetenal stuff that is sold today . What is the purple hardener (chromium ? ) My biggest concern for disposal is heavy metals.
This really makes me appreciate the miracle of modern t-grain film.
Best Mike

stefan4u · Aug 18, 2016

If bracketing about rated speed, I would increase process temp close to 100°F. But you will get color shifts and speed/contrast variations anyway. That whole reversal process is a kind of a diva, minor aberrations in pH, restrainer concentration / or overall formulation will lead to colorful results . Some years ago I homebrewed my developers, it was fun, but took quite a lot of time to nail that process… and a lot more than just a liter, or half a gallon of developers.

Have a look... (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Don’t get me wrong, but I would see your results as very interesting results with nearly antique materials. If the play instinct is satisfied, proceed with something more rewarding

All the best, stefan

Photo Engineer · Aug 18, 2016

If you process old materials at higher temperatures than recommended you will get either severe reticulation or the emulsion washing off the support.

PE

sepiareverb · Aug 18, 2016

This has been quite a hoot to see. Thanks! I'd love to get a scan of the instructions, I have a thing for the Kodak graphic design.

mshchem · Aug 18, 2016

sepiareverb said:
This has been quite a hoot to see. Thanks! I'd love to get a scan of the instructions, I have a thing for the Kodak graphic design.

I will definitely get scans of the documentation up. I have tomorrow off (I had to work 3 days this week part retired, part not) I'm formulating next steps. Baby steps as I don't have an unlimited supply.
Best Mike

Theo Sulphate · Aug 18, 2016

A fascinating thread and the results look very good to me.

King Tut could've probably stashed this stuff away in the pyramids and it'd still be good.

Photo Engineer · Aug 18, 2016

4000 years or so?

Egad!

sfaber17 · Aug 18, 2016

mshchem said:
What is the purple hardener (chromium ? ) My biggest concern for disposal is heavy metals.
Best Mike

Yes, almost certainly chrome alum which is a hardener. I have an old bottle.

mshchem · Aug 18, 2016

I've got my F5 loaded with another roll of Fuji Provia F. Have the ISO set manually at 40. I have auto bracketing set for 3 frames indicated EV, and +/- 1 stop. I will use the auto matrix metering. Hopefully we will have a clear day tomorrow. I think I'm going to go by the original instructions but I'm going to raise the temperature from 75 to 80 F . I'm doing this for fun. It really makes me appreciate the wonders of modern film. Makes me wonder if EK still had hundreds of folks working on film and chemistry for the last 10 years what might have been
Any other suggestions are welcome.
Best Regards Mike

LAG · Aug 19, 2016

Excuse me

In my opinion, now that you’ve made the first development with the kit, you have a starting point to begin with. I would not shoot doing bracketing on the next shots (unless you want/need to), thanks to you now (& the kit) that you have an "rough" idea of how to deal with the film results.

I (we) can see that you are doing this for fun (or experiment), but now that you have let the blindness an uncertainty behind, you can go further getting both: fun & target.

Temperature: You’ll have to find out the “ideal” temp. for your kit/film (as you could see, mine was 77F, although I started with 68 …), but first thinking that the kit “was made” in “those days” for “those films”, besides the fact that the kit is in such state of conservation, what forces you to act other”wise”. So, increasing the way you’re doing, sounds “pretty” go to me. However, keep in mind that the first developer may have been the problem, not the temperature itself. I don’t believe it is a crime to use another fresh developer (doing that first job instead), just to experiment, just to try (worth it as a suggestion?).

About the risk of reticulation or wipe the emulsion out from the base, I think that nowadays is not so easy, modern films are not the same as the old ones (unfortunately, Oh those old days!!!) so, to get to such serious situation the temperature need to be extreme, as harmful for the film as for the chemicals (besides modifying the estimated working time as well)

Anyway, all this literature without knowing what was the process line you’ve made, and without some previous “questions” unanswered ... (T&T)

Happy hunting.

Any other suggestion? Used a Kodak film instead of Fuji

p.s. by the way, Nice to meet you Margot Lane

mshchem · Aug 19, 2016

mshchem · Aug 19, 2016

Ektachrome E-1 Processing Kit Unopened Should I Open?

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