Edible Film Developers

[DBP]

If wine works, how about Mimosal - Champagne, OJ, and baking soda?

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

well I already got chocolate to work...maybe it's time to test vanilla

I think I actually did try vanilla extract & it didn't work....but I have since learned that there is something called vanilla essence or something that has a MUCH stronger vanilla scent...so maybe I'll try that

 

[removed account4]

well I already got chocolate to work...maybe it's time to test vanilla

I think I actually did try vanilla extract & it didn't work....but I have since learned that there is something called vanilla essence or something that has a MUCH stronger vanilla scent...so maybe I'll try that

have you tried "vanillin" it is imitation vanilla that is extracted from the distillation of wood ...

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

no I haven't...and I didn't know vanillin was derived from wood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanillin

apparently the vanillin from wood also contains this stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetovanillone

 

[Photo Engineer]

Read the 3rd paragraph in that wikipedia article. I would guess that one of the other ingredients in that mix might be active in "real" vanilla! The extract is just one synthetic compound.

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

thanks I did try synthetic vanilla once and got no results...I was thinking the real stuff had a zillion other compounds & would be better to try next...so of course now I have to try it again

just mixed up the red wine test....interesting how after adding the carbonate the color instantly changes to a very deep blue...

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

just finished with the red wine:

500 ml cheap red wine and 3+ tbsp of sodium carbonate

developed for 90 minutes...started at 80F

it worked...but was weak...looks like a combination of fog and stain also

( seems most people use wine + vit. C )

 

[Photo Engineer]

If wine + vitamin C, please tell me how to distinguish which one did the majority of the work?

It seems that these results are real, but vague on what did the real development and I would bet that the AA did 90+% of the work and that it would be difficult to prove otherwise.

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

I only used wine and sodium carbonate....for exactly that reason

what do you mean by "AA" ? ....oh....ascorbic acid I assume?

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

I think I'll try the honey/glucic acid experiment again...it seemed to work fine except for the fog

I have KBr...but never used it....maybe now is the time to toss some into the goop and see if it gets rid of some of the fog

 

[Photo Engineer]

I was referring to the people who use wine and Vitamin C which is Ascorbic Acid which is AA!

Sorry.

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

re: glucic acid...today's vocabulary word is "Tautomer"

I probably knew what that meant 35 years ago when I took Organic Chemistry...and promptly forgot a few weeks after the test

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

ah....I thought maybe I was unclear

I am currently in AA (Ascorbate's Anonymous)...I have plenty of ascorbic acid and calcium ascorbate...but haven't used them for ages since I already know they works

just peeked in my copy of Anchell's darkroom cookbook for alternatives to normal fixer....the only one's I might try are sodium sulfite and ammonia....I have plenty of both...but of course despise the fumes of ammonia....although I have used it as a developer for developer-incorporated papers...which was fun -- it gave low contrast brown images with a slightly swirly effect

I had wanted to take macro images of bees then develop the images with honey....I just realized that there are beekeepers in the area and perhaps i could even take photos of bees from the same hive that made the honey I use

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

tossed a piece of film in ammonia for an hour...nothing...didn't really expect much, but I had to try
it seems obvious if there were decent alternatives to regular fixer there would be people talking about it, but when googling I find nothing

next set of experiments is the honey/glucic acid again

I don't have a pH meter, but I do have test strips...which I hate since all the colors are so similar it's hard to have much confidence in the results... e.g. last night I was convinced the ammonia was pH 10...color seemed perfect match...then I look online and it says ammonia is closer to 12...and I could see how the color I had could be halfway between the colors for higher values on instructions...........I don't think I'll get a pH meter since I'd only use it for a week every two years & they seem to require more care than I want to give to a gadget I'll rarely use

BUT I can always make one solution of honey and mix it with different amounts of carbonate

turns out pH of honey is apparently between 3.4 and 6 or so at least I can have a vague when I've added enough carbonate to react with the glucose to make glucic acid...but not my usual overkill which I'm told is at least one reason I get so much fog

 

[albada]

I don't think I'll get a pH meter since I'd only use it for a week every two years & they seem to require more care than I want to give to a gadget I'll rarely use...
...but not my usual overkill which I'm told is at least one reason I get so much fog

I encourage you to get a pH meter. You'll probably use it every time you mix a brew. I used test-strips for a while, but the meter is far better. Instead of the "usual overkill", you add carbonate until the pH is up to 9.5 (or whatever level you choose), and then there's no guessing and no surprise fog because the brew was too hot.

A Hanna PHEP-4 costs around US$80, and will work fine for what you're doing. Look on amazon.com.

Mark Overton

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

thanks...I'm kinda borderline since I don't do nearly as much experimenting as I used to...but if I start having fun again i probably will...time will tell

 

[clayne]

PE: remember when you chastised me when I talked about mixing all my chemicals when I was younger? ;-)

 

[Rudeofus]

thanks...I'm kinda borderline since I don't do nearly as much experimenting as I used to...but if I start having fun again i probably will...time will tell

Sooner or later it will have cost you less than all the test rolls you wasted on bad developers. Put it down as educational expenses and get one already. My pH meter taught me (and forced me to learn) more about chemistry than a month of botching around with home brewing. There is a non zero chance that this extra knowledge will eventually come as a blessing in my professional career (which is not photography related BTW).

 

[Photo Engineer]

PE: remember when you chastised me when I talked about mixing all my chemicals when I was younger? ;-)

Mixing chemicals leads to innovation or explosion. If you know chemistry to a certain extent, you avoid the explosion. If you innovate you compete with my successes! Therefore, I try to keep you away from both!!!!

Howz that for strategy?

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

I think the key part is "younger"....when I was a teenager I had a decent knowledge of what I was doing, but several times did very stupid things....not because of my technical knowledge ( which was enough for the simple experiments )...but because i was an impetuous teenager who didn't think things through and didn't take risk seriously

now I just make a safe mess that's easy to clean up

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

well this is interesting...when I saw my solutions change color I clearly stumbled upon a natural pH test:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_indicator#Naturally_occurring_pH_indicators

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, the red cabbage connection has been shown here before.

Hey, if you wish to use indicator strips, I suggest that you use the ones with at least 3 patches per strip so that you can make a very clear distinction between pH. The one patch strips are much harder to "read".

PE

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

that is exactly what I just learned in the last hour.....GMTA

I just saw several varieties of test strip with 4 patches per strip...as well as test strips for narrow ranges

I think this is the way for me to go....I think my tinkering is too infrequent and too casual to warrant a decent pH meter and the calibration & storage solutions...better test strips in more than one range seem the perfect compromise for me -- for now anyway

in other news, I have not yet found any information on what really happens when sodium carbonate reacts with glucose to form glucic acid....I'd like to be able to figure out that for x grams of glucose I need y grams of sodium carbonate, etc etc....

 

[DarkroomExperimente]

hmmm..gluconic acid ccurs in honey:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconic_acid ...I wonder if it does anything beneficial?

perhaps I should test honey w/o heating it with carbonate first - instead of just assuming I'm creating glucic acid & that glucic acid is the only ingredient doing any developing

who knows what crazy stuff is in that sugary mix

 

[Helinophoto]

I see people talking about developing film, but could organic edible developers also be used to develop paper?? Or is paper to insensitive for this. I keep amazing me about the strange things coming up on APUG! Great !!! My knowledge is growing everyday here...

I haven't red the whole thread, but I developed a paper print if caffenol, the scan can be seen here:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(It's a little more brown than the green you see here, I blame it on my lacking scanner knowledge )