Edible Film Developers

ME Super · Mar 4, 2012

All this talk of edible film... I mean edible developers is making me hungry. Good thing I have a four-cheese lasagna in the oven.

But more seriously... I knew about the Coffee+Ascorbic acid, but had never heard of some of these others. The onion one sounds interesting.

ME Super

Alan Johnson · Mar 5, 2012

I did have some success by adding phenidone or metol as primary developer with the food extract as secondary developer to regenerate it.Extract of Broccoli ony worked because the Broccoli contained ascorbate but red grape juice gave a weak tanning developer,I think because the 6 carbon rings with attached OH group resemble pyrogallol.Most active was the synthetic but very soluble Quercetin Chalcone.The results are posted here.
The phenolic concentration in some plants is not very high,eg a gallic acid equivalent of 6-42 mg/g dry weight,so to get 0.6g phenolics to make a liter of working solution might need 100g plant per liter of developer in this example,IDK if it is typical:
Dead Link Removed

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 5, 2012

I just got some pure dextrose ( same thing as glucose as far as I can tell ) from a pharmacy.....it was like $25 for a pound...not as cheap as what I see online from Bruno's Bodybuilding Paradise...but at least I know it's pure

I also saw dexrose tablets...but they turned out to have ascorbic acid in them

Also saw resveratrol and quercetin there...but was pretty expensive stuff so I skipped it

annyway, the sugary adventure continues

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 5, 2012

just got more honey..."buckwheat" honey....I read that buckwheat honey has more zippy antioxidants than other types..and that darker honey = better...and this stuff is dark

so it will be interesting to see if I can tell the difference between types of honey

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 6, 2012

tonight's test:

500 ml water

Dextrose 3 tbsp

Sodium carbonate 4 tbsp

...this is pure dextrose from a pharmacy....so I'm hoping to learn is it REALLY this glucic acid I think I'm creating....or other stuff in the honey

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 6, 2012

it worked!

dextrose instead of honey works...

so I'm hoping that means it really is the glucic acid developing the film...but what do I know, I'm not an organic chemist....in fact, it was organic chemistry that made me switch my major to math, lol

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2012

DarkroomExperimente said:
it worked!

dextrose instead of honey works...

so I'm hoping that means it really is the glucic acid developing the film...but what do I know, I'm not an organic chemist....in fact, it was organic chemistry that made me switch my major to math, lol

Interesting result. Once interesting experiment would be to find out whether dextrose works more like the metol/phenidone or more like hydroquinone component of common developers. In the first case, ascorbic acid should give you better results, in the latter case caffenol should do the trick. Trying this would give you better insight how dextrose works and you could fine tune the results, potentially with much less dextrose. BTW, check this out how you can make a mix of dextrose and glucose from normal sugar.

If you replace dextrose with inverted sugar syrup and the soda with a higher quantity of sodium bicarbonate (aka baking powder) you should be able to make a dev which consists only of very common kitchen ingredients. Not sure whether it would fall under the "edible film developer" category, though

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 7, 2012

interesting...I see this invert sugar is similar to honey....and one method is to heat sugar with ascorbic acid

I was planning on also testing regular sugar anyway...this just adds to the fun

kb3lms · Mar 7, 2012

Anthcyanins as Sensitizing Dyes

Look out:

DarkroomExperimente said:
well this is interesting...when I saw my solutions change color I clearly stumbled upon a natural pH test:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthocyanin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_indicator#Naturally_occurring_pH_indicators

From wikipedia: Many plants or plant parts contain chemicals from the naturally-colored anthocyanin family of compounds. They are red in acidic solutions and blue in basic. Anthocyanins can be extracted with water or other solvents from a multitude of colored plants or plant parts, including from leaves (red cabbage); flowers (geranium, poppy, or rose petals); berries (blueberries, blackcurrant); and stems (rhubarb). Extracting anthocyanins from household plants, especially red cabbage, to form a crude pH indicator is a popular introductory chemistry demonstration.

...and also from the article on Anthocyanins: ...
Dye-sensitized solar cells
Anthocyanins have been used in organic solar cells because of their strong light harvesting, and their ability to convert of this light energy into electrical energy.

OT, I know, but could these Anthocyanins be harvested to make spectral sesitizing dyes? Anthcyanine <> cyanine? Seeing their potential use in solar cells and the use of related dye compounds and similarities to the cyanine dyes used in panchromatic films got me thinking.

Off to get more coffee now. (for drinking, obviously)

Rudeofus · Mar 7, 2012

DarkroomExperimente said:
interesting...I see this invert sugar is similar to honey....and one method is to heat sugar with ascorbic acid

It also says lemon juice works for this. Again, only ingredients readily found in Aunt Tilly's kitchen ...

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 7, 2012

another test I need to do...dev film immediately after mixing sugar(whether honey, dextrose, whatever) and carbonate w/o heating

I want to see how fast this glucic acid is formed ( if that's what is happening )....I read you need to boil the mixture....but my first test just used hot water out of the faucet

soooo...does the glucic acid form quickly...or does it take a while?...or is it just some internet chemistry sasquatch dbcooper rumor and it was just the sugar all along or something weird I don't know about

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 7, 2012

500 ml water

dextrose 2 tbsp

sodium carbonate 2 tbsp

no long preheat like before...just mix and then develop...

78F pH of dextrose 5 ...after carbonate added...pH 10 ( using super accurate pH paper so readings are +/- 25 )

this time only 45 minutes, not 90

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 7, 2012

SUCCESS!!!!!

Nothing happened!

soooooooooo I take this to mean that heating the dextrose+carbonate is needed....I don't think reducing the time & amount of ingredients would be the difference between a very dense negative and a totally clear one

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 7, 2012

interesting....in solution glucose/dextrose seems to change from a linear chain structure to a ring structure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 8, 2012

more info on sugars...even an animated explantion of how the linear form of glucose turns into the ring for in water:

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/carbohydrates.html

I wonder if glucuronic acid is involved in any of this...or is it totally irrelevant?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucuronic_acid

Photo Engineer · Mar 8, 2012

You may want to remember that in organic chemistry, 5 and 6 member rings are most stable as a general rule. Three and 4 member rings are harder to form, and rings greater than 6 fall apart more easily.

PE

Alan Johnson · Mar 8, 2012

Ascorbic acid is made from glucose.
If you have sodium ascorbate in solution and expose it to the air it will go yellow then orange.
For really hard work it can be titrated with iodine/starch.

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 8, 2012

Alan Johnson said:
Ascorbic acid is made from glucose.

interesting...was just reading that humans are one of the few animals that can't make their own vitamin C

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 8, 2012

ok...so tonight gonna try same recipe as last night, except this time I preheated the mixture and let it sit a long time

this I assume lets the reaction between the dextrose ( aka glucose ) and sodium carbonate generate the glucic acid

today my new improved pH papers arrived...so maybe I can have some confidence in reading them...and something that resembles accuracy

500ml, 2 tbsp dextrose, 2 tbsp sodium carbonate, 78F, 45 min

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 8, 2012

interesting...no images...but the little tail that stuck out of the film cassette was halfway developed

sooooo I'm tempted to also try sucrose/table sugar ...if sucrose is really glucose attached to fructose...why not give it a shot & see what happens

this is pretty fun...my usual tactic is to try something once just to see if it works....I don't think I ever kept playing with the same thing over and over like this to actually understand it better

one irony here is that I am learning a lot about nutrion these days...and the parallel between healthy food & film developers is amusing...antioxidants develop film...and they're healthy to eat......I'm learning how the body uses sugar...and how to make a sugar into a film developer

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 9, 2012

sweet potato in the microwave now...prior to the test of "Spudinal" the world's finest potato-based developer

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 9, 2012

IT WORKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the sweet potato worked!!!

so it seems anything with enough glucose in it will work...now I have to try other sugars....

500ml water, one sweet potato, 6 tbsp sodium carbonate, heat the mix for several hours, develop starting at 80F for 2 hours

maybe I should try french fries next....

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 9, 2012

McDonald's french fries are now being tested....they blew up in the microwave...but it's under control now

perhaps the salt will act as a restrainer...lol

just realized...McDonald's french fries as a developer belongs in the INedible Film Developer thread

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 10, 2012

French Fryol developer is either a total bust or so weak only the tip of the film that sticks out of the film cassette got any development...the tip was slightly brown...rest of the film totally clear ( and greasy )

DarkroomExperimente · Mar 10, 2012

Vitamin E

I assume Vitamin E doesn't work...because when I google it....nobody talks about it working on film & if it did work I assume many people would have tried it by now.

But I'm gonna try it anyway.

I found something interesting on wikipedia which suggests to me ( assuming I actually understand superadditivity ) that Vitamin E & C act like a superadditive pair in your body:

"As an antioxidant, vitamin E acts as a peroxyl radical scavenger, preventing the propagation of free radicals in tissues, by reacting with them to form a tocopheryl radical which will then be oxidized by a hydrogen donor (such as Vitamin C) and thus return to its reduced state"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_E#Functions

Also, I read that one source oneline that claims one multivitamin company gets their vitamin E as "vitamin E aceate" from KODAK's waste products...how ironic

*****of course I forgot that Vitamin E is a FAT SOLUBLE vitamin, not water soluble...apparently there is a water soluble form...but that's not what I got....but apparently it can be dissolved in 75% isopropyl alcohol ( although the source actually said "eluted" )

Edible Film Developers

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