Edible Film Developers

Rudeofus · Apr 2, 2016

BAC1967 said:
Ascorbic Acid alone doesn't work.

Ascorbic Acid alone won't develop film, but Ascorbic Acid with Sodium Carbonate will, especially if one gives this combo as much time as people did here.

There is some chance that Coffee or other liquids will speed up the Ascorbate+Carbonate combo, and that Caffeic Acid doesn't play much role in this. Certain quaternary ammonium salts speed up development action of alkaline Ascorbic Acid, Hydroquinone or other development agents with otherwise long induction times, and AFAIK at least coffee contains such compounds.

Alan Johnson · Apr 2, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Probably true but do we have experimental work that says it is true, or that the development just takes longer or what....

PE

From TH James:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja01229a026
But $40

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2016

Thanks Alan. I have read the work by Howard James, and Grant Haist, and even talked to them about it, but I was interested in any non $40 data.

Sorry for any trouble this query may have caused.

PE

removed account4 · Apr 2, 2016

no trouble at all PE
without questions that are difficult
no one takes steps forward.
personally i'd rather process my film in old coffee
even cheap beer is too expensive to process film in.

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2016

We might convince Sean to create a Caffeinol forum for collecting information and things related to this unique process. It might also include Winol and Urinol to mention a few. I'm serious in spite of the developers.

PE

removed account4 · Apr 2, 2016

there is a caffneol "group" seems to be as good as a forum, no membership handshake or passwords needed ..
and it has its own gallery ... and it is open to anything, pretty much, wine, beer, cheap booze, peeRO that anyone wants to discuss.
( as long as they are nice/civil &c )

Gerald C Koch · Apr 2, 2016

IIRC from using an ascorbic acid based print developer there is a rather long induction period which may be due to the fact that a charged species is involved. The addition of another developing agent which can form a super-additive mixture would shorten the induction period.

Theo Sulphate · Apr 2, 2016

DarkroomExperimente said:
just finished developing Tri-X in Thyme...

next on the list: Parsley, Sage, and Rosemary

I'm pretty confident that Sage & Rosemary will work, less sure of Parsley
...

Back in the day, we used Frankincense and Myrrh.

(Myrrh is an antioxidant)

Alan Johnson · Apr 2, 2016

IMO if it is wanted to know for sure that an edible substance is a primary developer, it has to be tested without ascorbic acid addition, at least until someone re-runs the tests on the developing activity of ascorbate in these strong carbonate solutions.

Rudeofus · Apr 2, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
IIRC from using an ascorbic acid based print developer there is a rather long induction period which may be due to the fact that a charged species is involved. The addition of another developing agent which can form a super-additive mixture would shorten the induction period.

Whatever that superadditive "another development agent" may be, it's not the Caffeic Acid, at least not together with Ascorbic Acid.

Photo Engineer · Apr 2, 2016

jnanian said:
there is a caffneol "group" seems to be as good as a forum, no membership handshake or passwords needed ..
and it has its own gallery ... and it is open to anything, pretty much, wine, beer, cheap booze, peeRO that anyone wants to discuss.
( as long as they are nice/civil &c )

John, I'm aware of that but I've been comparing the interest in this to emulsion making and just making a mental analogy. Thats all.

PE

Truzi · Apr 2, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Back in the day, we used Frankincense and Myrrh.

(Myrrh is an antioxidant)

I thought myrrh was a sort of casserole. (Reference Lake Wobegon, lol).

DarkroomExperimente · May 23, 2016

Well...I'm baaaaack

I know a few people with beehives so I'm going to try photographing a beehive/bees with film developed using the honey the bees created

will post photos soon

removed account4 · May 23, 2016

DarkroomExperimente said:
Well...I'm baaaaack

I know a few people with beehives so I'm going to try photographing a beehive/bees with film developed using the honey the bees created

will post photos soon

SO stoked to hear this !

have you seen the honey formulas for dry collodion ?
if you are into that sort of stuff ...
http://albumen.conservation-us.org/library/monographs/sunbeam/chap36.html

NedL · May 23, 2016

DarkroomExperimente said:
Well...I'm baaaaack

I know a few people with beehives so I'm going to try photographing a beehive/bees with film developed using the honey the bees created

will post photos soon

Glad you are back, this is one of the most interesting and entertaining threads on APUG!

Gerald C Koch · May 24, 2016

Certain amino acids form soluble silver halide complexes. Grain Haist mentions tw0 in his book The Monobath Manual. However there are several others such as arginine. Their solvency depends on a molecule having a thiol -SH group or several amine -NH2 groups. If you look at the left hand side of the molecule the three amine group form a claw (chela) hence the term chalate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arginine

The inclusion of one of these in a developer could produce fine grain just like sodium sulfite does in D-76. Several of the amino acids are available as powders in health food stores.

DarkroomExperimente · May 24, 2016

I did get decent results from tryptophan...

probably gonna start this evening on the honey developer....

removed account4 · May 24, 2016

DarkroomExperimente said:
I did get decent results from tryptophan...

probably gonna start this evening on the honey developer....

be careful of the toast crumbs ..

NedL said:
Glad you are back, this is one of the most interesting and entertaining threads on APUG!

DITTO !!

DarkroomExperimente · May 24, 2016

this time I'm going to add sodium sulfite...read online somewhere that sodium sulfite helps with a gluconic acid developer...they also use phenidone-ish agents in addition to the gluconic acid...but for this project I want honey to be the only developer

tragically...when I got out my old faithful Nikon N90s...the LCD had turned almost totally black...the camera worked...but I was kinda flying blind

DarkroomExperimente · May 25, 2016

success!

500ml water

4 tbsp honey

3 tbsp sodium carbonate

1/3 tbsp sodium sulfite

.7g KBr

split the rool into 2 sections...one developed for 45 min, the other 60 minutes

both look pretty good, with fog

film was an old roll of ilford delta 3200.....probably overexposed a stop or two since my @$%^& camera's LCD display is messed up so I was flying blind

DarkroomExperimente · May 25, 2016

just realized, duh, I should be buying fresh film for these experiments instead of stuff that's been sitting around for years....

sedwards · May 25, 2016

DarkroomExperimente said:
success!

500ml water

4 tbsp honey

3 tbsp sodium carbonate

1/3 tbsp sodium sulfite

.7g KBr

split the rool into 2 sections...one developed for 45 min, the other 60 minutes

both look pretty good, with fog

film was an old roll of ilford delta 3200.....probably overexposed a stop or two since my @$%^& camera's LCD display is messed up so I was flying blind

Would love to see the results of this!

NedL · May 25, 2016

Also it's been too long since I looked at this thread.... so I'll ask:

Are we sure that water + sodium carbonate + soduim sulfite + KBr alone would not develop a negative in 1 hour?

DarkroomExperimente · May 25, 2016

NedL said:
Also it's been too long since I looked at this thread.... so I'll ask:

Are we sure that water + sodium carbonate + soduim sulfite + KBr alone would not develop a negative in 1 hour?

yes...we're sure those ingredients w/o a developing agent won't develop film

I'm also sad to announce that Lipitor doesn't develop film....so my dreams of showing my Doctor a photo of McDonald's french fries developed with Lipitor have been crushed

NedL · May 25, 2016

Thanks!

Edible Film Developers

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency