ECN2 developer starter!

georgegrosu said:

Wratten 85 color correction filters, even if they are not Kodak, are likely to change the color temperature.
Follow the filter indications.

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I use the 85 filter when i shoot the Vision3 500T in daylight, full sun, sometimes or cloudy yet bright. Mostly I use my Canon T70, but each lens I have takes a different size filter.and with each filter i see they are different shades of colour. The accessory market back in the day must have been massive. How do i measure the warming effect of each filter filter that says its No.85 yet look different?.

georgegrosu said:

It is important to scan at least a few photograms developed by you on a normal scanner (minilab type - for example).
I think scans will look good.

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I have already started bombarding the guy with requests, so far no reply, I will add this one .

lantau said:

The buffer used in ecn dev is carbonate based, so that might be why it blew up. Use screw cap and open occasionally. Especially upon strong temperature changes.

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Yes, they did explode and I think for the reason you give. Some of the bottles I rescued and put in the fridge. the first to explode was the Bleach, followed by the Dev and Fix at the same time, then the prebath. The Dev that is over a year old has growth in it, like the Mothers of Vinegar growth.

Mogsby, the ECN-2 negative process uses CD 3 color chromogenic subtance and the ECP color positive color process uses CD2 color chromogen subtance.
Mogsby, there are also devices that measure the color temperature.
But I think they're pretty expensive.
Why do not you want to trust what it says on your filters.
Expose a piece of film with all the Wratten 85 filters you have and compare.
Uses a single lens on the camera.
If they have other diameters, the filters in the hand.
Mogsby, I have never heard that the processing solutions are explosive.
All laboratories and mini-laboratories for film processing should have very special equipment.
Doing the film processing solutions in the refrigerator is your idea or someone you learned?
The film processing can not be make reading in a few months something on intenet.

George

georgegrosu said:

Mogsby, I have never heard that the processing solutions are explosive.

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I use the wrong word, sorry, the gasses build up and burst the bottles. Keeping the bottles cool is what i learned through experience, I doubt anyone did what i did and on such a scale. I had 40 glass beer bottles of each Dev, Bleach and Fix.120 in total. All Crown capped with the smallest air bubble left in the bottles. But the storage is second place if I cannot get the developing right.

georgegrosu said:

Why do not you want to trust what it says on your filters.
Expose a piece of film with all the Wratten 85 filters you have and compare.
Uses a single lens on the camera.

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For consistency in my test I am going to stay with one set up.

georgegrosu said:

Mogsby, there are also devices that measure the color temperature.
But I think they're pretty expensive.

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I wish I had money or easy access to the proper equiptment, so I work with what i have .

Here are the results from the home made Developer 'V' Lab pour off!.Film is Vision3 500T.
45_03 is the Lab pour off.
15_03 is the Home Brew.
Canon T70 with lens barrel set to auto, camera set to 320 iso with Hoya No.85 filter. Consecutive shots with shutter release held down for 12 frames. I cut the film in the dark so I could get two strips of exposed film of equal length. I used the Paterson Thermo tub with added water curculating pump to get the temperatures as close as possible. I do not have an assistant to do side by side Development test, so i had to do one after the other.
Please accept my scanner is useless.
I want to show you the difference with the developers. Which one is best. Both solutions are on 3rd use for the test.

lantau said:

As I mentioned I got my hands on the antifoggant now.

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I think my latest shows that i need the anti fog to help with the storage of the home brew developer. Please can you remind me what chemical the anti fog is. i will buy some.

Mogsby,

you don't need to set the camera to ei320 when using the filter. With the filter attenuating brightness and the camera set to 500 you will effectively be shooting at 320 as a result. That is what kodak is saying by giving you that 320 value. Of course, if you were using an external meter then you'd have to set it to 320.

I'm not convinced that AF2000 will better the keeping properties of the developer. pH is quite important, though.

Anyway, there is a great resource created by a member. It will tell you all about AF2000:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/index...ition-of-kodak-af-2000-for-ecn-2-process.342/

I checked the patent and come to the same conclusion.

Of course I too exaggerated with the explosion of bottles at storage.
But I did not meet in a 40-year processing film of a case that a bottle would break.
Did you hear that the film processing solution bottles that are sold on the market find them broken?
Putting film processing solutions in the refrigerator where you probably have your food too, I think it's a big mistake.
There was another discussion on the APUG regarding the storage of film processing solutions in the refrigerator.
It is true that by lowering the temperature the degradation process of the developer would be slowed, but by lowering the temperature the solubility
of the substances is reduced and you start to have all sorts of precipitations on the bottom of the bottle.
If some of the substance precipitates, then its concentration in the solution will be lower and then the photographic result (density) will be another.
Kodak recommends a 2-week storage for developer Fresh Replenisher.
In the compensation solution (fresh replenisher) did not come in contact with any piece of film.
To you, you have a developer solution from the developer machine (which got in touch with the film).
Some of the remaining gelatin from cutting and perforation will fall into solution, some of the film components will pass into solution.
At best, give your revelator 2 weeks of storage.
I keep all the bottles in a warehouse where the temperature is between 19 - 25 ° C
"For consistency in my test I'm going to stay with one set up."
Filters that you can not screwed on your lens are hand-held in front of the lens.
Objectives may have different treatments and then the photos may look different.
That's why I'm telling you to use the same lens.
In connection with antifogg, I think you'd better buy the KODAK Antifoggant AF-2000 commercial product.
Patents do not always tell the exact networks.
Ask PE to tell you how things are.

George

lantau said:

you don't need to set the camera to ei320 when using the filter

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OMG! How can I be so dumb . Its embarrasing! and frustrating. I've been doing it wrong for over a year since I bought my first filter. 100's of hours wasted with the Tungsten films in daylight. I have to start all over again.
Its likely I am doing something wrong with the homebrew too, i just can't see it. But, thanks for the link, I will have a good read.
Thanks

georgegrosu said:

Putting film processing solutions in the refrigerator where you probably have your food too, I think it's a big mistake.

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George, I have a seperate fridge in the shed for film and chemicals. (see pic) The wife would cut something off me in my sleeep if I put my photo stuff in the kitchen fridge.

Please can you advise me of a good scanner I can buy for under £100.
This the one I am using at the moment. It the FFS! x500.

... and stop laughing at my scanner

Mogsby said:

100's of hours wasted with the Tungsten films in daylight. I have to start all over again.
Its likely I am doing something wrong with the homebrew too, i just can't see it. But, thanks for the link, I will have a good read.
Thanks

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You didn't waste your time. The film can handle the overexposure. You did it by 2/3 of a stop I believe. Though technically speaking any under and overexposure will affect colour reproduction. Kodak points that out in a publication about pulling and pushing cine stock. That is before the effect of any push pull processing.

Mogsby said:

George, I have a seperate fridge in the shed for film and chemicals. (see pic) The wife would cut something off me in my sleeep if I put my photo stuff in the kitchen fridge.

Please can you advise me of a good scanner I can buy for under £100.
This the one I am using at the moment. It the FFS! x500.
View attachment 187461
... and stop laughing at my scanner

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I envy your fridge. I have a small freezer cube which is pretty full.

The problem with solutions in the fridge is that some components can precipitate before others. That can affect pH, disable a preservative, etc. Rodinal is a week known example. Will keep forever, unless stored too cold.

Still, I kept Fomadon LQN in the coldest part of the fridge for months while using it and it was fine. The previous bottle kept at room temp was becoming darker, IMHO. So there is the exception. But at €2.50 a bottle I could afford the experiment.

I also seem to have the same scanner with different branding. We found two at work in January, still packaged. My boss gave me one, but I haven't tried it yet. I'd expect it to have a small lowfi camera inside.

Well at least you do not have development solutions along with food.
If the preservation of film development solutions were something good, sure that film processing laboratories would apply.
I have never heard of keeping cold processing solutions.
The processing solutions are kept at about 20 ° C.
Have not you learned anything from your funny games?
At least keep the films on top in the refrigerator, and the solutions down.
If break the bottles with solutions do not go on the films.
My advice is that it would be better to learn the basic notions of photography thoroughly and then go on to the practical side.
At scanners I can not say that I'm really good, but any cheap stuff can not be and performing.

George

lantau said:

I envy your fridge. I have a small freezer cube which is pretty full.

The problem with solutions in the fridge is that some components can precipitate before others. That can affect pH, disable a preservative, etc. Rodinal is a week known example. Will keep forever, unless stored too cold.

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The Fridge is on loan from a neighbour . I take on board your comments about the Dev ect. It is usefull to know and of help. the experiments with the old film stocks and old ish chemicals is just something to do. but i have fresh film and chemicals, inc the homemade stuff that i try to get good results from.
I attach the latest test with fresh film and the Lab chemicals. I took your advise and left the camera set at 500 iso.
The with/without test .

The colours on the test chart look more or less correct. The magenta seems to be a magenta. The entire look is lo-fi. So your problem may really be down to the scanner only.

Making positives from colour film will end up costing money, unfortunately. Whether that is a scanner/digicam, a darkroom with colour enlarger or a professional motion picture contract printer, if it is even possible to find and then operate such a thing.

In May I shot a first test roll of the Cinestill 800T (V3 500T). It was an alpha roll for Kickstarter backers. Because I was dragging on with my purchase of chemicals I didn't develop it until I finally upgraded my ECN developer a few weeks ago. That means it was in the fridge for at least three months. Along with another six rolls of various Vision3 35mm rolls. There were some quality problems with that roll as you can see in the first image. I shot another roll recently. That one had no abrasion in the emulsion. Both rolls were developed together on the same jobo spiral.

Here are two samples from that older roll. For the first one I forgot to use the 85B filter. I deliberately applied the same colour correction as for the filtered frames taken in the same light. It is also overexposed because I used an external meter. The second one was shot with filter.

lantau said:

The colours on the test chart look more or less correct. The magenta seems to be a magenta. The entire look is lo-fi. So your problem may really be down to the scanner only.

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I agree with you, the scanner is very lo-fi. Also the negative's do not lay flat in the holder, plus the frames are cropped . But I now realise the difference betweeen a scanner and what i have which is in effect just a simple lightbox with a 5mp camera. I have beeen looking at different scanners and some higher res digicams. The Epson Perfection V370 is within my budget, but I need to study the reviews before I make a decision.
The resolution of your images is much better than mine.

georgegrosu said:

At scanners I can not say that I'm really good, but any cheap stuff can not be and performing.

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I've ordered the Epson V550 scanner as it does 120 film as well as 35mm. we wait and see how good it is. In the hope that i can show better scans that can be better understood. I sent some of the old scans to a guy in taiwan, I had fixed them in PS, he thinks the colour is OK considering the Lo Fi scanner.
I have 3 options. the pour off Lab solutions that I have to try and store for 2 months at least, till i get a new batch. The home made develeoper plus using the pour off bleach and Fix that seem to store OK. Or, I buy the Bellinni 6lt kit!
I'm testing storage of the solutions under all conditions and time. Bellinni offer a 6lt ECN kit! pointless to buy it if I have no idea how to store the part used concentrate or working solutions. the Funny Game would be to buy the kit and after two weeks, pour it all down the drain , I have done that with many a C41 kit!.
The Idea of keeping some developer in the fridge is to see if it holts the bacterial growth that happens after a few weeks in a warm enviroment. But maybe there could be contaminents in the fizzy drinks bottles.
The process labs do not care about longer term storage life of the chemicals, its all kit form and the whole operation is based on consistency, constant use with replenishment and a fat pay check they get for processing film. I am on my own witn a peterson tank and maybe 4 feet of film twice a week.

georgegrosu said:

My advice is that it would be better to learn the basic notions of photography thoroughly and then go on to the practical side.
At scanners I can not say that I'm really good, but any cheap stuff can not be and performing.

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Yes, I understand that I must look at the basics and i am doing that, but the scanner I had was no good, I realised my scans were of no use and frustrating for appraisal use.
I sold some of my old film and stuff to buy a good scanner, something i should have done a long ime ago. But, I have limited money and it takes time to gather the funds for new stuff.
the new scanner gives me a better understanding of test results.

Hi Mogsby, I’ve been reading this thread with interest! I’m also looking to home-brew some ECN2 developer, can I ask where you sourced the raw chemicals from? I can find some of the components from Silverprint in the UK, but can’t find CD3 anywhere. Thanks

bestbefore1978 said:

Hi Mogsby, I’ve been reading this thread with interest! I’m also looking to home-brew some ECN2 developer, can I ask where you sourced the raw chemicals from? I can find some of the components from Silverprint in the UK, but can’t find CD3 anywhere. Thanks

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I got my CD-3 From Phototechnik Suvatlar (http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/rohchemie). You have to send an email to Mr. Saban Suvatlar and negotiate with him directly, there’s no online shop. He accepts PayPal.