Ebay Morality

[MikeS]

Hey, Nick, I'm one of those idiot buyers who leaves negative feedback for sellers who mail lenses to me in plain paper envelopes or who represent badly damaged lenses' condition as "very good."

Dan:

I too will leave negative feedback for these sorts of things, BUT, before I do I look at what other items the seller is selling (well I also do that before I bid), If the seller is selling lots of photo stuff, and should know better, then I'll leave a negative. If the seller sells mostly other stuff, with an occasional camera or lens (from an estate, etc) then I'll chalk it up to a genuine lack of knowledge, and not leave a negative.

-Mike

 

[Dan Fromm]

Dan:

I too will leave negative feedback for these sorts of things, BUT, before I do I look at what other items the seller is selling (well I also do that before I bid), If the seller is selling lots of photo stuff, and should know better, then I'll leave a negative. If the seller sells mostly other stuff, with an occasional camera or lens (from an estate, etc) then I'll chalk it up to a genuine lack of knowledge, and not leave a negative.

-Mike

Actually, Mike, I'm with you. The people I dinged claimed to be in the business and sold large volumes of photo stuff. They should have known better.

I once received a lens from a seller in the UK, totally naive and innocent person, in a padded envelope. It had an integral hood; in the listing the hood was fine, but the lens arrived with it dented. I sent the seller a note explaining how to pack lenses. Gave her good feedback because she'd tried, had shipped promptly, and was appropriately contrite. Rejected, with thanks, her offer of a refund and keep the lens. At the time SKGrimes owed me a small favor, straightened the hood gratis.

Cheers,

 

[gbroadbridge]

I'll give an example on why the feedback model is worthless. If you get bad feedback what stops you from registering a new name? Some sellers do this all the time.

I don't know about ebay in the US, but ebay.com.au requires sellers to send copies of their drivers license and credit card before they can sell. That prevents people from creating multiple accounts.

I'm more worried about sellers with 100% good feedback. Have you ever dealth with people? Well keeping 100% of them happy is 100% impossible. Sooner or later something will happen. Your fault or just an idiot buyer. So how do these people have 100% perfect feedback?

I have 100 percent positive feedback. It's easy, anyone who has a problem gets their money back

 

[mysuzuki2]

More important than negative feedback, I think, is how the seller responds to negative feedback. I am wary of sellers who respond to negative comments by insulting or putting down the buyer. This indicates to me that the seller will not try very hard to resolve problems.

 

[Paul Sorensen]

I have 100 percent positive feedback. It's easy, anyone who has a problem gets their money back

I also have 100% positive, like I mentioned before, and I have worked to maintain that, but I have to agree with Nick that you can't control the feedback process and if you get a negative from someone, folks like me and Nick will still consider you okay.

The deal is that there are people out there who will neg you because of really inappropriate things and not give you the chance to refund their money first. I agree that you will have far fewer negatives than folks who have sketchy customer service, but I do disagree with the implication that it is totally under your control. Of course, as one who has yet to get a neg, I disagree with Nick as to whether I can be trusted.

More important than negative feedback, I think, is how the seller responds to negative feedback. I am wary of sellers who respond to negative comments by insulting or putting down the buyer. This indicates to me that the seller will not try very hard to resolve problems.

I couldn't agree more. I look very carefully at the feedback record before deciding to bid. I really like to know what happened, or at least how it was addressed. On thing I do is seriously consider bidding on items from folks who have a fairly low percentage on a small number of feedbacks. I always check them out carefully and expect to get a better deal than I would otherwise. If the price goes too high, or the negs are problematic for me, I don't bid.

 

[Bob F.]

One example of why you should not put your bid in early: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7549205490

:rolleyes:

Incidently, aardvark990 registered in '03 and has never actually managed to buy anything. Wonder why? ...

Cheers, Bob.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

On the other hand, late bidding is just too much like aardvark

 

[gbroadbridge]

One example of why you should not put your bid in early: http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=7549205490

:rolleyes:

Incidently, aardvark990 registered in '03 and has never actually managed to buy anything. Wonder why? ...

Cheers, Bob.

The item description is a bit of a worry too

What should the device be worth? (I have no idea).

Graham

 

[moose10101]

Incidently, aardvark990 registered in '03 and has never actually managed to buy anything. Wonder why? ...

Well, if you're thinking of the "S" word, that doesn't appear to be the case. He/she has tried and failed to buy densitometers (and other things) from a number of other sellers too. It seems to be a case of not wanting to pay the going rate.

 

[Craig]

Here is an example of sniping gone bad. Obviously some of the bidders put in an "absurdly high" bid to ensure they won. Too bad two other bidders also did that. Just as reference, the normal price for a slide is around $3-5.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6563586571&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

[jd callow]

Well, if you're thinking of the "S" word, that doesn't appear to be the case. He/she has tried and failed to buy densitometers (and other things) from a number of other sellers too. It seems to be a case of not wanting to pay the going rate.

Ouch!

 

[Dave Parker]

Here is an example of sniping gone bad. Obviously some of the bidders put in an "absurdly high" bid to ensure they won. Too bad two other bidders also did that. Just as reference, the normal price for a slide is around $3-5.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6563586571&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

WOW,

I am in the wrong business, I have lots of slides of the different trains and stuff like this that I have picked up at garage sales around my area, they are quite abundant, maybe I should start selling them!!!

Dave

 

[moose10101]

Here is an example of sniping gone bad. Obviously some of the bidders put in an "absurdly high" bid to ensure they won. Too bad two other bidders also did that. Just as reference, the normal price for a slide is around $3-5.

Since five different people were willing to pay at least 3x the "normal" price, and three of them went $200 or more, I'd have to assume there's something special about this slide. A collision of two "nuclear" bids (when someone bids well over the value to insure a win) is very rare; to see three high bids on the same auction makes it much more likely, but not a certainty, that they have valued it fairly.

 

[Bob F.]

Well, if you're thinking of the "S" word, that doesn't appear to be the case. He/she has tried and failed to buy densitometers (and other things) from a number of other sellers too. It seems to be a case of not wanting to pay the going rate.

No, I wasn't thinking the "s" word - I wondered at first, but I did a quick check at the time and as you say, that does not seem to be the case - the aardvark simply does not have a clue what he is doing and has pushed the prices up in the process.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[Craig]

Since five different people were willing to pay at least 3x the "normal" price, and three of them went $200 or more, I'd have to assume there's something special about this slide.

The Fairbanks Morse units were retired from CP in 1975, but aside from being a bit of history there is nothing exceptional about this slide. Certainly other slides of the FM units (or steam engines for that matter, also extinct) have sold for much less. I've bought a number of large format negatives of steam engines for $10-20.

 

[Dan Fromm]

WOW,

I am in the wrong business, I have lots of slides of the different trains and stuff like this that I have picked up at garage sales around my area, they are quite abundant, maybe I should start selling them!!!

Dave

Dave, look at the guy's completed sales. Prices all over the place, mainly low. I think you'd do better selling ground glass.

On the other hand, perhaps some of the ones you have may be worth the trouble of scanning, writing and posting listings, and following up.

Cheers,

 

[vet173]

I snipe everything. You won't see my bid till the last three seconds. I don't consider it unethical. I have only one shot and I have been out bid on several ocations. Those who complain are the ones who don't read the bid page. What is your maximum? If you would bid more do it. If it's something I really need I not only bid my max, I bid what I would be grudgingly willing to pay. If I bid low to get it on the cheap there is be no complaining when out bid. You had a chance to bid your max way before I put my bid in. Did you really think you you were going to get that $300 lens for $80. You might but probably not. I find when my bid is for what it is worth, more often than not I get the item. When I try to get it on the cheap, or someone is willing to pay more than it's value I usually lose it. It's only an auction, so don't let it get your panties in an uproar. There will be others. Bid what it's worth and your chances are good. It's a penny for your thoughts so there is my two cents, Thanks.

 

[Flotsam]

Now this is Ebay Immorality. The emotions rushed back when I ran across this on Ebay today.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Agfa-Rondinax-6...549617966QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Years ago, I got one of these when I bought a used Mamiya C33. After a few frustrating uses and losing a couple of rolls of film, there was a Rodinax 60 shaped hole in the drywall across from my darkroom door.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Now this is Ebay Immorality. The emotions rushed back when I ran across this on Ebay today.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Agfa-Rondinax-6...549617966QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Years ago, I got one of these when I bought a used Mamiya C33. After a few frustrating uses and losing a couple of rolls of film, there was a Rodinax 60 shaped hole in the drywall across from my darkroom door.

And here's another listing http://cgi.ebay.com/55mm-Schneider-...549171602QQcategoryZ15247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
that, in my opinion, goes far beyond the bounds. Covers 4x5 at 1:1? Schneider claims a 94 mm circle at 1:1.

 

[David Brown]

Not really a moral issue, unless one thinks the seller is intentionally misleading. Probably just ignorant.

(Enjoy)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-3-Kustom-8-x-10-Darkroom-Developing-Photo-Trays_W0QQitemZ7548706866QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a bidder. Hope he knows what he's bidding on.

 

[Dave Parker]

Not really a moral issue, unless one thinks the seller is intentionally misleading. Probably just ignorant.

(Enjoy)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-3-Kustom-8-x-10-Darkroom-Developing-Photo-Trays_W0QQitemZ7548706866QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a bidder. Hope he knows what he's bidding on.

Interesting listing David,

Not quite as true as he might have you believe,...on domestic shipping, if you use the online system for USPS, Delivery confirmation is Free...

On international Shipping, there are tracking systems and you can guarantee things, so he is not quite telling the whole truth...I send guaranteed international stuff quite often, as long as the customer is willing to pay the price of the guarantee,

Dave

 

[Dan Fromm]

Not really a moral issue, unless one thinks the seller is intentionally misleading. Probably just ignorant.

(Enjoy)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-3-Kustom-8-x-10-Darkroom-Developing-Photo-Trays_W0QQitemZ7548706866QQcategoryZ29993QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is a bidder. Hope he knows what he's bidding on.

Uh, David, the seller in the auction you pointed us to has 163 photographic items on auction at the moment. Just might know what he's doing.

Tim Sharkey, who sells as lensn2shutter, represents himself as a fine machinist and an expert on the lenses he sells. In the listing I pointed folks to, he asserts that a lens whose image circle Schneider says is 94 mm at 1:1 will cover 4x5 at 1:1. Pretty loose interpretation of cover, if you ask me. And he shows a polaroid shot, supposedly taken with that very lens, in which it illuminated ~ 84 mm at considerable distance. I have a 55/8 Repro Claron in barrel and very much doubt that the polaroid he points to was taken with one. At infinity the lens mine covers, barely, 47 mm. If the guy is deluded or ignorant, fine, so be it. But then he can't be an expert.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[tim atherton]

i's the market. it doesn't recognise ethics. they aren't part of the way the market functions and aren't a factor.

 

[Jorge]

Uh, David, the seller in the auction you pointed us to has 163 photographic items on auction at the moment. Just might know what he's doing.

Dan

Not in this case... those are safe boxes for paper.... I had one just like them.

 

[laz]

i's the market. it doesn't recognise ethics. they aren't part of the way the market functions and aren't a factor.

Hmmmm, I avoided posting for 14 pages but sorry Tim I gotta disagree.

Maybe on the large scale the market functions that way, but, in niche markets and small scale businesses ethics are part of the equation, sometimes a big part.

But even if given that the market doesn't recognize ethics, that does not mean that they have no value. Maybe not monetary value, but, something quite a bit more valuable, self respect.

-Bob