Eastman Kodak temporarily paused all film production - to upgrade manufacturing plant (Nov 2024)

[koraks]

As I understand, they may be in the pasta business as well.

 

[Kino]

Great idea. While you're at it, please coat me some boxes of 20X24 MGWT, Seagull G graded, Brilliant Bromide, and Polygrade V at half the price I paid for these. Then in your spare time, how about some color paper too? I need it in six weeks. That should be ample for your R&D phase. The following year please provide Kodachrome sheet film.

You get one choice; b&w and irregular coating.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

It is important to remember that a significant percentage of EK's coating machinery time is being used to make non-photographic products.

Wat else is being made then? Or is all other time used to coat motion picture film (negative+positive)?

 

[MattKing]

Wat else is being made then? Or is all other time used to coat motion picture film (negative+positive)?

Among other things, they make flexible circuit boards.
Plus all sorts of specialized products that employ their coating technologies.
See some of them here: https://www.kodak.com/en/advanced-materials/home/

 

[bfilm]

Among other things, they make flexible circuit boards.
Plus all sorts of specialized products that employ their coating technologies.
See some of them here: https://www.kodak.com/en/advanced-materials/home/

But are these made in the same facility or on the same equipment?

Kodak only ever mention photography and cinematography when they talk about refurbishing or expanding their film manufacturing capabilities.

 

[MattKing]

But are these made in the same facility or on the same equipment?

Kodak only ever mention photography and cinematography when they talk about refurbishing or expanding their film manufacturing capabilities.

Yes - on the same coating lines.
It is their coating technology and expertise that constitutes their primary commercial advantage.
And the various uses for that technology and expertise - both photographic and non-photographic - actually compete for time on the equipment.
Their burgeoning business manufacturing ESTAR PET "Films" is an example of how they apply that technology and expertise - see here: https://www.kodak.com/en/advanced-materials/product/estar-pet-films/
And yes, that shares much of the equipment and staffing that are used to make the photographic films.
AND for clarity, when they refer to "film manufacturing capabilities", they include those mostly non-photographic products.
Acknowledging of course that one of the uses for those ESTAR PET based "Films" is to serve as the substrate for a number of photographic "Films".

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

As I understand, they may be in the pasta business as well.

Only for lasagna.

 

[bfilm]

Yes - on the same coating lines.
It is their coating technology and expertise that constitutes their primary commercial advantage.
And the various uses for that technology and expertise - both photographic and non-photographic - actually compete for time on the equipment.
Their burgeoning business manufacturing ESTAR PET "Films" is an example of how they apply that technology and expertise - see here: https://www.kodak.com/en/advanced-materials/product/estar-pet-films/
And yes, that shares much of the equipment and staffing that are used to make the photographic films.
AND for clarity, when they refer to "film manufacturing capabilities", they include those mostly non-photographic products.
Acknowledging of course that one of the uses for those ESTAR PET based "Films" is to serve as the substrate for a number of photographic "Films".

Maybe film manufacturing capabilities was the wrong choice of words. I didn't mean their manufacturing of the polyester film base--I was meaning more the coating and finishing processes. And personally, I am much more interested in their films on acetate base.

But still, Kodak rarely seem to mention anything other than photography and cinematography when they talk about their manufacturing capabilities in recent years. So, if production for different uses does share the equipment, it still seems like photography and cinematography film might be the main production (of coated film base products).

 

[cmacd123]

Kodak has always focused on each market. when Carestream was part of Kodak, the movie folks did not talk about what Great X-ray film came out of colorado. Recordak was even a separate brand name for Microfilm. the Photo litho films for Printing and Electronic production may be made on the same line, but are only advertised to the electronics industry.

Kodak no longer makes TAC film base, only estar. the base they use where acetate is preferred is bought in. ESTAR base has application in Flat Screen TV and displays. Kodak can do "Solvent Coating" oh and by the way they can coat Tri-X, Gold 200 and 5219, and 5222. and other Photo films.

when talking about Movie production (https://kodak.com/go/motion ) they don't talk about radiation monitoring badges.

although the Go Motion page does have links to other product lines near the bottom of the page.

 

[MattKing]

Expanding on what Charles posted, Eastman Kodak ("EK") has always left it to the marketing people - which included their customer service people - to share information about their product(s). This applied to both EK and their international subsidiaries, such as Kodak Canada and Kodak Limited (in the UK).
I grew up in a world of Kodak (Canada) information, but even then, the different marketing divisions were essentially individual silos, with separate staff, catalogues, distribution systems and promotions. As a customer service manager in a Kodak Canada Kodachrome lab, my Dad had all sorts of contact with other marketing people, in other marketing divisions, but it was only by happenstance that my Dad might learn product information about something like microfilm.
That and the fact that all the locally based marketing people tend to socialize, and tended to have young families of similar ages who saw each other a lot .
Before the bankruptcy, EK divested of a lot of its ancillary businesses like its microfilm division. Then at the time of the bankruptcy, marketing responsibility for what we call still "film" was transferred over to what became Kodak Alaris, at which time EK became a much, much, much smaller entity, and all that communication responsibility went to Kodak Alaris.
It was that huge reduction in size that permitted EK to survive the bankruptcy and to continue to manufacture all sorts of products that come from coating technology, including the various different things that they call "film", only some of which are photographic.
In these modern times we get some dribs and drabs of product information from EK directly, because they still do their own marketing of the motion picture film stocks and some of the chemicals for the commercial motion picture labs, but even then it is only through people like Charles who have connections with that business that the information comes to our attention.

 

[bfilm]

Taking the subject of this thread as an example, which has nothing to do with the marketing, the message is that photography and cinematography films are what is leading to the refurbishment and expansion of the relevant capabilities at Eastman Kodak.

James Continenza, Chairman of the Board and CEO, Eastman Kodak, November 2024:

"Our film sales have increased on motion picture and in still film and other films. So on film, right, we're doing a shutdown in November, total shutdown. We've continued to invest in our manufacturing process, while we need to shut down completely to bring light into the dark, right? Film is made in the dark. So in November, we will be modernizing the plant, putting more investment within that, which has also caused us to use more cash in the quarter to build up inventories while we do this.
"But as we continue to see our commitment and our customer commitment to film, still in motion picture, we are going to continue to invest in that space and continue with that growth."

This is similar to other statements that I can remember over the previous decade and leads one to believe that on volume the photography and cinematography films are still the significant force.

 

[MattKing]

"Our film sales have increased on motion picture and in still film and other films.

Emphasis added.

 

[bfilm]

Emphasis added.

Right, but the point is they never find these "other films" worth elaborating on. They are certainly a part of the production, but they don't seem to be the main cause of the increase. I remember some years ago, Eastman Kodak even seemed to indicate that motion picture film was what kept the film business going at all for awhile.

 

[MattKing]

We will have to agree to disagree about the specific meaning of the wording in that "Investor Call" - literally a conference telephone call - that you quote.
It is a good thing though that all the uses of their coating expertise and machinery are enjoying increased volumes, because that helps ensure the viability of that part of EK.
As almost all of the worldwide acetate base production comes from Germany, there may be some challenges in the future if they don't take steps to replace as much of that as possible with Estar, or to somehow find/support other sources.

 

[bfilm]

As almost all of the worldwide acetate base production comes from Germany, there may be some challenges in the future if they don't take steps to replace as much of that as possible with Estar, or to somehow find/support other sources.

I imagine coating on acetate base film might still make up the majority of their production, with the motion picture camera films in particular (which I imagine will continue to use acetate) and some of the photography films.

For the acetate base, there is Island Polymer Industries in Germany, which I assume is the source to which you refer. But I think Daicel Corporation in Japan can also still offer significant quantities of acetate film base. And there may be others.

 

[bfilm]

A recent short article from Silvergrain Classics, timely to the discussion, without much new information but with a fun old Kodak picture.

Kodak's Next Chapter: Supporting the Future of Film

 

[MattKing]

Discussion of the concerns about future sourcing of substrate materials from non-US providers would inevitably force us into issues involving politics - and we don't do that here on Photrio - so I'll leave that here.

 

[MattKing]

A recent short article from Silvergrain Classics, timely to the discussion, without much new information but with a fun old Kodak picture.

Kodak's Next Chapter: Supporting the Future of Film

These are understood points. But if you were to go to users who benefit from the growing business of EK manufacture of flexible circuit boards or PET "films" for non-photographic purposes, you would be likely to find similar enthusiasm for those parts of the upgrade that support those businesses.
EDIT: and that's where the discussion of marketing comes in, because the information channels for most of what is shared publicly come through those channels, not Investor Calls.

 

[cmacd123]

and substrate for say LCD displays or Flexible Circuit boards is likely only discussed in the marketing materials for the electronics industry for example. This products may very well come into your home or Office (or even in the flat fone in your pocket) with the brand name of the Kodak customer who bought the original substrate. (or the subsequent electronics supplier further along the Supply Chain.)

BTW, I notice in an unrelated posting elsewhere that there are now restrictions on the sale of Kodak Film Cement. it seems one of the main Chemicals in the product can now only be sold to Professional users who have an elaborate plan to protect the workers from exposure to said chemical. Being able to use Cement to splice Acetate film is one of the popular reasons why it is used in Movie original Negatives. (protecting the Camera from Damage is another)
( https://www.kodak.com/content/pdfs/PCN111524a-Film-Cement.pdf )

 

[cmacd123]

even then it is only through people like Charles who have connections with that business that the information comes to our attention.

I have Very Little "connection" to the Motion Picture Business.

as I think I have mentioned, back in the 1980s, there were several firms who had the idea of using MP short ends to make "cheep" contact Printed slides. They would offer a roll of Colour film for a nominal amount, BUT depended on the idea that you would have to send it to them to get it processed.

as this was many years before the web! I strugled to find information. the work from Kodak was that Motion Picture film was formaking motion Pictures and was imposible to use in still Cameras. to a follow like me in my thirty - that was a challenge. Kodak DID sell a Bunch of databooks, Including Publication H-1, which was an 8.5X11 grey cardboard box with a data sheet for EVERY Eastman movie film available at the time. At the same gernaral time, I stumbled on a newsleter published by an older Gent called "Dale Nevel" who came up with a way to Mix Various Color chemicals using a set of (specific) Kitchen Measuring spoons. Proably NO KNOWING that he was not allowed to mail some of this stuff, I soon had a box containing small Bottles of everything I needed to use his specal Formulas.

another classified ad in the back of one of the Photo Magazines. let me order a few rolls of B&W movie film from Short ends. I had 100ft of Not only Double X but also Plus X 5231, and XT pan, and some 4X (which was proably already discontinued) I had a sub hobby of playing with stuff that Kodak said was only for Labs. I even bought a 100ft short end of 5247 (asa100) which was the standard of Movie Production at the time.

I also had to teach myself the Jargon of the movie world. and get a few #85 filters. sending out to the varous Labs was still tempting, I think I would get 36 slides and another roll of film as well as my Negatives back for about 6 Bucks US. Only downside is that the Film I bulk loaded I did not get my old Cassettes back. Still I was having fun. there was even a small Lab in the toronto area which offered the same sort of develop and contact print to slides service.

many years later, I did get hold of a Filmo 16mm Camera and shot a bunch of Movie film as movies, their is lat I checked a lab in toronto who will develop and PRINT 16mm Movies. at bout 100 bucks for 3.5 minutes, I had less fun with that. BUT it was also a learning experience.
If you want anyone "connected to the business, I believe that @Kino might be in a better position.

 

[MattKing]

Charles,
I guess yours are "spiritual" connections then .

 

[Kino]

Charles, thanks for the vote of confidence, but I am retired now and "out of the loop", so to speak.

SMPTE has become a digital media organization and American Cinematographer has become pretty much the same.

All things go away eventually...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Kodak Film Cement now contains not only common solvents like acetone and methanol, but nasties, namely, dioxane and dichloromethane, The latest MSDS clearly spells out its restriction from general sales starting this coming Feb. That MSDS is supplemental to the sheet linked previously, which only mentions the ban on methylene chloride - a controversial chemical for a couple decades now, but often replaced by even worse ingredients, depending on the application.

I don't know where Kodak Film Cleaner stands in all this, since its key ingredient has been restricted for quite awhile now, but is apparently due to be completely phased out of manufacture due to a recent EPA order.

 

[cmacd123]

And I guess I should explain "Short ends". when a movie is made on 35mm film, the camera cranks through 24 "half frame" size images each second, so the film travels at 90 feet a minute. the Negative comes as 400ft or 1000 ft rolls. a 400ft roll is good for under 4 minutes of shooting if A shot takes 2 minutes (or a total of two minutes for several takes) there may be only 200 ft of film left in the camera. the director will generaly have a fresh magazine placed on the Camera, and the remaining 200ft would be bagged and caned, and marked as a "short end" (while the exposed film would also be bagged and canned and sent to the lab.

the production may use the ends for shots they know will be short, or sell them off to a film Broker to be used on REALLY low budget pictures.

 

[cmacd123]

oh and Noticed today that one of Kodak's Bigest movie film customers has been Knighted for his contributions to "Film" and will now be Sir Christopher Nolan. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...estitures-Hollywood-blockbusters-success.html