Eastman Double - X? What can it bring to the table?

Gerald C Koch · Jul 10, 2012

MP film stock is a bit thicker than still film stock for obvious reasons. Getting a 36 exposure roll is a bit of a struggle with some brands of cassettes. One nice thing about 5222 is that it dries completely flat -- absolutely no curl. This is an advantage when enlarging.

mhanc · Jul 11, 2012

Thanks Glenn! These are the best examples of this film that I have seen. You seem to have little trouble getting images with great contrast from this film. Are you doing anything special in that regard?

Looks like EI 250 in Microdol 1+1 is the winner... love the Naples gallery!

Scandium · Jul 11, 2012

mhanc said:
Thanks Glenn! These are the best examples of this film that I have seen. You seem to have little trouble getting images with great contrast from this film. Are you doing anything special in that regard?

Looks like EI 250 in Microdol 1+1 is the winner... love the Naples gallery!

The lower contrast of cine films is an advantage in some ways. One may increase the development time to bring the contrast up to normal still film level. With the additional development there is often a small increase in film speed. I develop so the contrast a little lower than normal still values. I target for optimal printing on grade 3 paper. The lower contrast agrees well with my scanner and helps minimize blown highlights in scans.

The developers that work well with Tri-X will work well with Double-X. It just requires some experimentation to get to the contrast you want for printing with an EI that retains good shadow detail. HC-110 dil. H and Microdol 1+3 work well for wide brightness ranges. These very dilute developers inhibit blown highlights very well, but the grain is more evident, especially in scans. Microdol 1+1 is a good compromise. It softens the grain just a little, produces a nice mid-tone range, and still controls the highlights well. This film/developer combination works well for the street shooting I like to do.

Glenn

gkardmw · Jul 11, 2012

I ordered a 400 ft roll from kodak for the first time the other day and just developed my first roll today. I used Adox MQ Borax as suggested by the rff thread (similar to d76 but with a bit more snap) and developed it for 7+ minutes at EI250. I can confirm a couple of things:

Low Contrast
Thicker Film Base (but you can still rip through the sprocket holes)
Dries flat
No edge numbers but there is a barcode

Mine had a pinkish cast. I originally fixed with TF-4, then washed, noticed the color had not diminished, so refixed in a new standard rapid fix and rewashed. Still a tinge of pink there.

Here is the long rff post that has a lot of nice observations about this film and the Orwo films:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52426&highlight=5222

Here is the site that developed from that (very nice spread sheet for developers and times and other things)

Dead Link Removed

Here is a test shot that has sky and some trees in the background. What I notice is that the sky shows a pleasant grain and that I see more details in the trees than I normally do with other films. And the other shot is some veggies I should be eating. What I notice is there is something very smooth and pleasant about the way it renders a scene.

Dave

cmacd123 · Jul 11, 2012

Gerald C Koch said:
MP film stock is a bit thicker than still film stock for obvious reasons.

I am not sure of what the "reasons you would expect 5222 to be thinker than say 400TX in 35mm? I have not used a micrometer, but have never noticed any real difference, with 5222 or the other long gone MP stocks that I used in the past (4X and XT pan). The 35mm Movie print stocks are thinner than the negative stocks, as they come on a Polyester base, but those are not normally of much use in a camera.

The 35mm movie stock does have slightly different perforations, but that should not bother most still cameras. (BH 1866 vs KS 1870) The BH perforations actually were used for all 35mm film at one time.

The edge printing does only have key numbers every foot, so you can't just make a note to "print shot 27", but that is hardly a hardship.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 11, 2012

cmacd123 said:
I am not sure of what the "reasons you would expect 5222 to be thinker than say 400TX in 35mm?

While both films may be base this says nothing about the actual thickness of the films. Eastman 5222 has additional coatings on both the back and the front of the film. Kodak says this on their website. The net effect is to make it slightly thicker and make it difficult to get 36 exposures into some cassettes. From personal experience I have found that 36 exposure cassettes are not only harder to load but may be hard to advance for the first few frames. This has caused torn sprocket holes with the film being unable to advance. I just load either 30 or 24 exposure rolls and no longer have a problem. There is nothing magical about 36 exposures.

Looking back my previous post was a bit confusing as I should have said "MP film is a bit thicker than still film since it has an anti-abrasion coating on the front and a lubricating layer on the back." (Still films do not have these extra layers.)

SkipA · Jul 13, 2012

I've got an abundance of sealed 100 foot rolls of 35mm B&W film in my freezer already, so it's a bit crazy for me to consider buying a 400 foot roll of the Double-X right now. But I really like a lot of the images I've seen, so I think I'm going to do it anyway.

30 frames in a standard reloadable cassette seems fine to me. I might be able to fit more in a FILCA for my IIIc.

Scandium · Jul 13, 2012

SkipA said:
30 frames in a standard reloadable cassette seems fine to me. I might be able to fit more in a FILCA for my IIIc.

I've had no problems with 36 exposures in metal snap cap cartridges. The plastic cartridges are slightly smaller inside and comfortably hold approx. 30 exposures.

hoffy · Jul 14, 2012

OK, I have some film on the way - 3 rolls of 5222 and 3 rolls of SO-331, thanks to http://www.labeauratoire.com/

At least I can give it a try before deciding whether I want bulk rolls

Cheers

pbromaghin · Jul 15, 2012

Hoffy, keep us informed. This is really interesting stuff.

hoffy · Jul 15, 2012

No probs - I plan to shoot it very heavily bracketed, but I also plan to develop either in Adinal or D76.

baachitraka · Jul 16, 2012

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
The below link belongs to Vic Alexander , is a great guy , located in Hollywood and sells 200 ft 5222 film for 30 dollars
I kept telling to research internet and some interested guys want to pay 400 ft 180 dollars
This guy sells 3 times cheaper than the Kodak , 45 cents for 36 exposure 5222.
Additionally , you can order down to 100 feet for first try

http://www.releasing.net/rawstock/

I dont use ORWO , I disliked their film.

Umut

Thank you. I got a reply from Mr. Vic Alexander and it seems he do not have any short ends of 5222 at this moment. Hope, he will get it soon.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 16, 2012

Ahh , thats not good . I am sorry. There are few short end sellers at google , keep searching.

Umut

baachitraka · Jul 16, 2012

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Ahh , thats not good . I am sorry. There are few short end sellers at google , keep searching.

Umut

I will wait, since I have enough stock for APX and Fomapan. Right now, APX is selling 1.99 EUR for a roll.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 16, 2012

Let me try to figure out other short end sellers in a new list. 2.5 dollars per roll of APX is 5 times more expensive than 5222.
This is lots of loss. I will write a new list in half an hour and contacting them and recieve data will take this week time also.

Umut

baachitraka · Jul 16, 2012

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Let me try to figure out other short end sellers in a new list. 2.5 dollars per roll of APX is 5 times more expensive than 5222.
This is lots of loss. I will write a new list in half an hour and contacting them and recieve data will take this week time also.

Umut

That was old stock(APX & Fomapan) I still have. I will wait for 5222 before I think about replenishing them.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 16, 2012

Rawstock - Burbank, California Part of the Independent Film Distribution Network. Recans and short ends plus other lengths.
http://www.releasing.net/rawstock/

Media Distributors Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, San Diego and Miami. Fresh film stock, recans, short ends.
http://www.mediadistributors.com

Film Source LA - Los Angeles Fresh film stock, recans, short ends
http://filmsourcela.com/main/index.php

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jul 16, 2012

I will write to Vic Alexander for any BW Film and E6 Film short end and by the Movie Industry.
Other links , I wrote to LA and waiting an answer.

Umut

frobozz · Jul 16, 2012

There are not a ton of 35mm productions shooting on 5222 these days (seems like most people are just shooting on color stock and taking out the color in post) so it's going to be really hard to find short ends. If Kodak won't sell 100' spools, maybe some enterprising short end seller will simply take new rolls of 5222 and make 100' short ends out of it themselves! It wouldn't sell for a discount, like short ends usually do, but at least it would be a way to supply the obvious demand.

Duncan

baachitraka · Jul 16, 2012

Some more, but I did not check them yet.

http://www.productionhub.com/directory/listings.aspx?cat_id=83

frobozz · Jul 16, 2012

hoffy said:
OK, I have some film on the way - 3 rolls of 5222 and 3 rolls of SO-331, thanks to http://www.labeauratoire.com/

At least I can give it a try before deciding whether I want bulk rolls

Cheers

If anyone else is looking for SO-331 in 100'-ish rolls, here's my ad where I'm selling my excess:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I did the same thing with my excess 5222 and sold it all in an instant... but I still have a couple of extra rolls these goofier intermediate films.

Duncan

Oxleyroad · Aug 30, 2012

hoffy said:
OK, I have some film on the way - 3 rolls of 5222 and 3 rolls of SO-331, thanks to http://www.labeauratoire.com/

At least I can give it a try before deciding whether I want bulk rolls

Cheers

So have you run a roll or three through a camera yet Ash?

hoffy · Aug 30, 2012

A funny story about that! I got the package in the post last week and it was the wrong film! It appears that I was sent some ORWO and some old Velvia by mistake and some poor person in Mexico got my Double-X.

Lance @ labeauratoire is re-sending me the right films, but it might take a few weeks to get here, as it's not coming from Main Land USA.

Cheers

pschauss · Aug 30, 2012

hoffy said:
A funny story about that! I got the package in the post last week and it was the wrong film! It appears that I was sent some ORWO and some old Velvia by mistake and some poor person in Mexico got my Double-X.

Lance @ labeauratoire is re-sending me the right films, but it might take a few weeks to get here, as it's not coming from Main Land USA.

Cheers

You should try the ORWO since you have it. I am using UN54 (iso 100) as a replacement for Plus-X and I have heard good things about their UN74 (iso 400).

hoffy · Aug 30, 2012

pschauss said:
You should try the ORWO since you have it. I am using UN54 (iso 100) as a replacement for Plus-X and I have heard good things about their UN74 (iso 400).

Yes, I will give it a try I have read that it is a little tricky to process, but I really have nothing to lose

Eastman Double - X? What can it bring to the table?

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