Durst M605: can't focus 50mm Rogonar lens with bigger magnification -

[BeselerOrNot]

There is no mystery. You need a different lens mount that places the lens close enough to focus.

To me there is a little bit of mistery, since it's a stock lens board for 50mm lens.

 

[MattKing]

To me there is a little bit of mistery, since it's a stock lens board for 50mm lens.

For typical 50mm lenses.
Of the lenses that Durst made provision for during the time that that model of enlarger was in production.
Taking into account the markets that Durst was active in, and the lenses that were common in that market during that time.
Somewhere there is probably a Durst publication that lists accessories, as well as available lenses, and indicates compatibility.
And that lens won't be on the list. Or if it is, it will be in relation to a different, much rarer recessed board

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

From Jollinger website.

The M605 will produce 12 x 16 prints on the baseboard (which measures 19½ x 21½ x 1¼) from either 35mm or 2¼ negatives using the appropriate lens. However, Durst provides an extension arm that raises the head an additional 8½", allowing 16 x 20 prints from 35mm and 20 x 24 prints from 2¼ negatives. It's an accessory we highly recommend for anyone making large prints. The extension arm is so massive that alignment is undisturbed.

 

[Melvin J Bramley]

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/durst/Durst_M605.pdf

 

[Hilo]

Fascinating thread! My compliments for sticking with the OP's issue.

I do not know the Durst M605 and wonder if it is possible the condenser is incorrectly fixed to the enlarger. Wouldn't that throw off the focus too?

I have no head to think out issues like this, but several times I have had to deal with the same issue. In particular using the Leitz Valoy II in combination with non Leitz lenses that were not 50mm but near that. From 40mm to 65mm.

In the end I always got it to work, using different sized adapter rings. But these were never recessed.

 

[koraks]

wonder if it is possible the condenser is incorrectly fixed to the enlarger. Wouldn't that throw off the focus too?

No and no.

This is a lens to film distance problem, as pointed out in #2.

 

[BeselerOrNot]

Next question, maybe worth a separate thread.

I see there are some M605 users here. Which 50mm lenses were you successful with when trying to get a maximum magnification? 14x, the head fully raised?

Getting a new lens looks like a simpler solution to me, compared to 3d printing or trying to find a more suitable board (were there even any?). Say, I see a cheapo Durst Neonon on ebay, and a not-so-expensive APO-Rodagon on a local market. Will they work?

 

[Ian Grant]

I use a 50mm Componon S with my M605, but Ive also used a Durst Neonon 50mm (made by Pentax), a 50mm El rokkor, all with excellent results.

Ian

 

[xkaes]

for Pete's sake! Read the darn user manual. That's what it's there for.

Durst made negative carriers for this enlarger for the 126 24x24mm format (35mm lens), the half-frame 18x24mm format (28mm lens), and even the Minolta Super 16mm 12x17mm format (25mm lens). These short enlarging lenses might need a recessed board -- which Durst made -- but any 50mm enlarging lens should work fine for any sized print, assuming that the enlarger is assembled and used correctly.

And even inexpensive 3-element enlarging lenses produce good results when stopped down to f8.

 

[BeselerOrNot]

or Pete's sake! Read the darn user manual. That's what it's there for.

I am sorry, I think you did not read the beginning of this topic.

Durst Neonon 50mm (made by Pentax)

Cool! as an avid Pentax user, I think I should go this way. Thanks!

 

[xkaes]

I think you did not read the beginning of this topic.

I've read this thread from beginning to end, and I'm responding to many of the suggestions and theories that have been thrown out. And that's what I'm suggesting -- that they be thrown out.

This enlarger is capable of making very large prints from very small negatives with very short focal length lenses -- if assembled and used correctly. That's where the user manual comes in to play.

 

[BeselerOrNot]

where the user manual comes in to play.

I have Rogonar that cannot focus with magnifications North of 8x. How reading the manual helps? Obviosuly not all 50mm lenses were created equal.

 

[koraks]

Which 50mm lenses were you successful with when trying to get a maximum magnification?

Rodenstock Rodagon 50/2.8
EI-Nikkor 50/2.8
Both on the recessed lens board I showed you earlier. Both of these lenses have a rear element that protrudes quite far through the lens board.

 

[BeselerOrNot]

Rodenstock Rodagon 50/2.8
EI-Nikkor 50/2.8

Thanks!

 

[BobUK]

My lens board measurements tally with those of Koraks.


A Fujinon lens I bought had a removable extension ring on it. Perfect design match. Not sure if it was supplied originally or a later addition. I do not use the lens with the extension.

Could your lens have a similar extension ring in place and you have not noticed it ?

 

[gorbas]

Beseler OrNot, did you check on your lens is there maybe retaining/nut ring on it? Once I had same problem when I moved my Rodagon 2.8/50 from Magnifax 3 (with deeper recessed board) to Durst M605 and I could not focus on big enlargement. Nut ring was mounted on the lens and after removing it it was perfect. You can also look to buy deeper Durst recessed board? Or maybe you can find locally nice Meopta Meogon 50mm lens? Dirt cheap Anaret's and Belar's are great lenses too for modest enlargements and beyond (but you have to find Meopta 39mm adapter for it).

 

[BeselerOrNot]

Sadly, no extension nut/ring: the thread has a visible ending.

 

[grahamp]

My M605 (monochrome condenser head) uses a 50mm f2.8 EL-Nikkor in the Siriotub, and a 75mm f4.5 Hoya Super EL in the Siriopla mount without trouble over the full standard range of the column. It's hard to remember back to the late 1970's when I got it, but I don't think there were many then current enlarger lenses in the 50-80mm range that were unsuitable.

You are using the standard Sirioneg carrier with glass and masks?

 

[gorbas]

OK, thank you for checking! Do you have some friend with Magnifax or Opemus? Can you borrow lens board from them? Strangely it's the same diameter but just a bit thinner than Durst. Here I have deep Magnifax recessed board for 35 or 28mm lens (for sub formats) that has been modified to take M39 and it works on my Durst's.

 

[xkaes]

I have Rogonar that cannot focus with magnifications North of 8x. How reading the manual helps? Obviosuly not all 50mm lenses were created equal.

If that is the case, the lens is messed up -- but I doubt it is. The lens was made to make much larger prints -- and the enlarger is designed to use even short focal length lenses.

There's either something out of whack with your enlarger or the lens or both. That's where reading the manual comes in.

 

[koraks]

@xkaes careful with that meme; it might backfire.

So far we have established that:
* OP seems to be using the enlarger correctly. Having used the M605 extensively (have you?) I see nothing out of order in either his descriptions or photos of his setup.
* He is using the correct lens board, as per the confirmation of several people in this thread including measurements.
* The Durst M605 manual (have you read it?) is succinct when it comes to which lens board to use with which lens, but confirms that OP is using the correct board.
* The Rodenstock lens OP is using seems to function perfectly fine.
* However, this lens is also of slightly unusual (but seemingly factory original) construction in that the screw mount protrudes quite far above the optical stack.
* The net result is that with this lens board, this particular lens may not focus at very large magnifications.

I trust the above will help you to locate your car keys. The rest of us already had a pretty firm idea where they were by about post #12, before you came along.

Any useful advice to help OP is certainly welcomed.

 

[MattKing]

There's either something out of whack with your enlarger or the lens or both. That's where reading the manual comes in.

Don't forget the other alternative - the one we are mostly discussing in this thread - that that particular version of lens has a mount that is not fully compatible with this enlarger and the lens mounts made for it.
Just like there are 50mm lenses that have mounts that are not fully compatible with my old Omega D6.
That Rogonar may have specs like the current Rogonar-S available for what seems silly money from B&H - you can see them here:

Those specs may very well be only partly compatible with that enlarger and the recessed board available for it.

 

[MattKing]

Moderator hat on:
A note to the community: apparently dismissive admonitions to "read the manual" are rarely if ever called for.
If you have a manual at hand, and an excerpt from it is helpful, it is always appreciated if you share that. But in this case, it appears that the manual has been read, and it doesn't help with this lens.
Hat off again.

 

[xkaes]

If the flange focal length of the lens is much longer than 50mm or much shorter than 50mm, that enlarger can handle it, and still focus for large prints -- assuming the lens and the enlarger are working correctly, and worked correctly.

• Thursday at 7:42 PM "So I got myself a Durst M605 with a color head, slightly beaten"

 

[koraks]

"So I got myself a Durst M605 with a color head, slightly beaten"

[...] but overall functional

It's really an unfortunate combination of lens board, lens and desired magnification, nothing else.