DR5 getting published?

[DeletedAcct1]

Found this on DR5 website:
"Archival qualities. dr5chromes are totally archival. More so than the best B&W fiber based prints or negatives."

This rules out the use of dye based intensification.

I've found, after years and years of reversal trials, that making b&w slides out of non-reversal engineered films is of the utmost difficulty and 99 out of 100 isn't worthwhile.
I mean, there are authentic b&w reversal films out there, namely Foma 100R, Scala 160 (and maybe Scala 50), not counting the other films that can be adapted with minimum efforts (Superpan 200, 80s etc...). Why bother to force Kodak Tri-x or Ilford Fp4+ to reverse well whilst they aren't mean to?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Why bother to force Kodak Tri-x or Ilford Fp4+ to reverse well whilst they aren't mean to?

Well.. DR5 claims these films reverse well in his process and his customers seem to be quite happy with the results they got. When his process becomes public next year, DIYers can also get similar results.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Well.. DR5 claims these films reverse well in his process and his customers seem to be quite happy with the results they got. When his process becomes public next year, DIYers can also get similar results.

Have you noticed that quite a few of the examples shown on DR5 aren't reliant on the crisp highlights that only a clear (as opposed to dyed grey) base film can deliver? Foma R100, Silvermax/ Scala 160 are on clear triacetate, the various Rollei and Adox rebrands/ confectioning/ modifications of Agfa Aviphot & Copex are on clear polyester - and T-Max 100 & 400 in 35mm are on clear enough bases that they might be ok. Many 120 films (apart from Ilford Delta 3200 & SFX - and Ortho+ I think) are natively coated on clear triacetate - and large format sheets on clear polyester - thus one emulsion might be great in reversal in 120, but have terribly flat highlights in 135.

 

[Hatchetman]

He did a roll of TMax 100 for me and it turned out great. maybe 2-3 frames out of the entire 36 roll came out dark.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

He did a roll of TMax 100 for me and it turned out great. maybe 2-3 frames out of the entire 36 roll came out dark.

@Hatchetman: Fantastic! DR5's DMax for TMax 100 is 4.8!! One can't help but salivate about the deep blacks of slides with such high DMax, but do they show any detail in reality? May be you can tell us if you are able to read shadow detail in the densest regions of your slides processed by DR5. Will appreciate your feedback.

 

[Hatchetman]

@Hatchetman: Fantastic! DR5's DMax for TMax 100 is 4.8!! One can't help but salivate about the deep blacks of slides with such high DMax, but do they show any detail in reality? May be you can tell us if you are able to read shadow detail in the densest regions of your slides processed by DR5. Will appreciate your feedback.

I have some low-grade scans on Flickr: see if you can view this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/22953190@N07/albums/72157628622364693

I have projected these on a big screen and the detail was very impressive. Note these are also winter in Chicago which is very gloomy.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have some low-grade scans on Flickr: see if you can view this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/22953190@N07/albums/72157628622364693

I have projected these on a big screen and the detail was very impressive. Note these are also winter in Chicago which is very gloomy.

Thanks so much for sharing these!

 

[Lachlan Young]

Something else possibly worth looking into is the effect of a silver nitrate based intensifier like Agfa 600. It is claimed to deliver a fairly decent boost in effective contrast. Was looking through an old Agfa/ ORWO text and noticed it, then found a few references on here to it - but there is seemingly otherwise very limited reporting on its effects.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Something else possibly worth looking into is the effect of a silver nitrate based intensifier like Agfa 600. It is claimed to deliver a fairly decent boost in effective contrast. Was looking through an old Agfa/ ORWO text and noticed it, then found a few references on here to it - but there is seemingly otherwise very limited reporting on its effects.

Any intensification of slides is going to dull the highlights as it amplifies the base fog.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Any intensification of slides is going to dull the highlights as it amplifies the base fog.

Yes - though I think the question with DR5 is whether there is some sort of intensification being used - possibly followed by some means or other of reducing the highlights to deliver acceptable clarity.

 

[pentaxuser]

Any more word from our announcer in the video on page 1 as to the date of publication? "I have heard it will be published" was fairly vague on dates

pentaxuser

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Any more word from our announcer in the video on page 1 as to the date of publication? "I have heard it will be published" was fairly vague on dates

pentaxuser

No news at the moment

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Update on Dr5 process from Facebook.

Q: Dr. Wood, is the DR5 process becoming public any time soon as promised by you last year?

Dr5: that was September we made that decision, that sometime this year it would happen. Don't have a timeline set for this. We had planned to publish it 1st through 2 prestigious Journals in the UK, but for what ever reason that did not want to follow through on the idea. The process deserves some industry recognition by publication 1st. I'm guessing that most don't realizes how unique the process actually is. If the industry doesn't give a crap, then no, it may never be published.

 

[Lachlan Young]

We had planned to publish it 1st through 2 prestigious Journals in the UK, but for what ever reason that did not want to follow through on the idea.

Maybe it failed peer review.

 

[bnxvs]

It's just marketing, nothing else (imho).

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Maybe it failed peer review.

Sadly it means that DR5 process will never be revealed. Dr. Wood claims that his process is unique and PE who was familiar with the process had remarked that it made use of unique chemistry.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

As I understand it DR5 claims good results even with films one wouldn't think would reverse well, like HP5 Plus.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

As I understand it DR5 claims good results even with films one wouldn't think would reverse well, like HP5 Plus.

HP5+ is one of the easiest films to reverse. Acros, TMax 400 and Adox CMS 20ii are more challenging.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

Maybe it failed peer review.

They probably didn't know how difficult it is to get a peer reviewed paper published. Not to mention the enormous cost involved.

If people want to try reversal themselves, I've had good results with rodinal + HC-110 on Rollei Superpan 80, Rollei Superpan 200/Retro 400, and TMax400. I'll need to test few more films (TMax 100, Tri-X, HP5+, Washi F) to confirm whether or not this process works for them.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Sadly it means that DR5 process will never be revealed. Dr. Wood claims that his process is unique and PE who was familiar with the process had remarked that it made use of unique chemistry. Perhaps the uniqueness of the process weighed against it in the peer review if there was any such review.

From what I interpret from Ron's comments about DR5 that have been posted, none of the discrete components/ steps are unique - and that what it does in procedural terms may be 'unique' compared to other BW reversal processes, but that they are somewhat back-to-front to how they should/ can be done.

They probably didn't know how difficult it is to get a peer reviewed paper published. Not to mention the enormous cost involved.

That's possible - but it's also plausible that it isn't as novel/ original as some people want/ need it to be. Ron's comment here about 'Absolute Dmax' show that methods of attaining it are well known in the world of photo engineering. What matters tonally is 'Effective Dmax'.

 

[pentaxuser]

Update on Dr5 process from Facebook.

Q: Dr. Wood, is the DR5 process becoming public any time soon as promised by you last year?

Dr5: that was September we made that decision, that sometime this year it would happen. Don't have a timeline set for this. We had planned to publish it 1st through 2 prestigious Journals in the UK, but for what ever reason that did not want to follow through on the idea. The process deserves some industry recognition by publication 1st. I'm guessing that most don't realizes how unique the process actually is. If the industry doesn't give a crap, then no, it may never be published.

Not sure what is meant by industry? Does he mean the two prestigious U.K. journals ( we don't do any other kind , you know) or industry in the form of places with the facilities to make use of the process?

If he feels totally abandoned by "industry" unspecified but the process needs saving then why not post an article on the internet to at least put this unique process in the public domain?

pentaxuser

 

[AgX]

That's possible - but it's also plausible that it isn't as novel/ original as some people want/ need it to be. Ron's comment here about 'Absolute Dmax' show that methods of attaining it are well known in the world of photo engineering. What matters tonally is 'Effective Dmax'.

But "Absolute Dmax" is a pure academic value, of no practical relevance here and thus should be off discussion anway.

 

[Lachlan Young]

But "Absolute Dmax" is a pure academic value, of no practical relevance here and thus should be off discussion anway.

The problem is that 'Absolute Dmax' seems to be what DR5's Dmax claims are based off of, whereas Agfa's claimed Dmax for Scala is in line with a realistic 'Effective Dmax'.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

But "Absolute Dmax" is a pure academic value, of no practical relevance here and thus should be off discussion anway.

The problem is that 'Absolute Dmax' seems to be what DR5's Dmax claims are based off of, whereas Agfa's claimed Dmax for Scala is in line with a realistic 'Effective Dmax'.

Absolute Dmax sounds like bullshit to me. Unless someone else (like how peer review works) replicate his claim of Abosolute Dmax (like how academic journals work. Btw reviewer 2 always have to be a jackass), then I suppose that’s why it wasn’t replicable or novel?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Not sure what is meant by industry? Does he mean the two prestigious U.K. journals ( we don't do any other kind , you know) or industry in the form of places with the facilities to make use of the process?

If he feels totally abandoned by "industry" unspecified but the process needs saving then why not post an article on the internet to at least put this unique process in the public domain?

Not sure Dr5 reads photrio posts any more. You can perhaps ask him these questions on Facebook where he responds to queries on Dr5 process? Here is the relevant thread.