Dr. Jolly's Solarisation Developer - keeping properties?

[pdeeh]

I've been experimenting with trying to produce Sabattier effect reasonably consistently in 35mm negatives, and have found the Dr. Jolly articles & Bob Carnie's posts about using it in large volumes for deep tank development of sheet film very helpful.

Given that this formula has a relatively low proportion of Sodium sulfite (~37g/l) I wondered what the keeping properties are like, and I also wondered - assuming it has a decent shelf life - what the capacity might be?

 

[Bob Carnie]

Basically the formula is Selectol Soft, which many here have used in the past. I mix each time I print or process negs and dump when finished, as all my chemicals I do not replenish.

I would be interested in hearing how you are flashing 35mm negs and then continue with development. I have found that agitation is important, maybe your deep tank is on the floor and you are
dipping like you would wetting agent before drying, and laying to whole 35mm roll under the flash????

the formula I use is 144grams metol - 450 grams sodium sulfite- 420 grams of sodium carbonate- 56 grams of sodium bromide to 6 litres of water for stock : working is 1:1 water.

I've been experimenting with trying to produce Sabattier effect reasonably consistently in 35mm negatives, and have found the Dr. Jolly articles & Bob Carnie's posts about using it in large volumes for deep tank development of sheet film very helpful.

Given that this formula has a relatively low proportion of Sodium sulfite (~37g/l) I wondered what the keeping properties are like, and I also wondered - assuming it has a decent shelf life - what the capacity might be?

 

[pdeeh]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I had thought it might be "one-shot".

It really is very early days for me with this technique, so do please recognise I'm right at ground-level at the moment!
I also realise I'm on a well-trodden path, but I'm happy to discover shortcomings in techniques from my own attempts to learn, and don't mind repeating others' errors.

Given that I have constraints on facilities (I only have a very makeshift darkroom), I've started off using Paterson tanks and reels, the aim being to see if a workable & consistent process can be managed under those constraints. I see it as something I'll work on over a period of months to try and refine, so there's no rush.

My first attempts have been flashing on the reel, but there's the rub for consistency. One can do this perfectly adequately when doing full reversal, as of course that process is vastly less time-critical, but (as expected really) I've discovered how hard it is to get a uniform effect with the short flash times required for Sabattier doing things that way. Serendipity does produce the occasional lovely effect this way though ...

It is possible to unspool and respool the reel during development, of course, but this brings it's own difficulties of course of potential damage to the film, and perhaps problems with uniformity of development, let along the short development times for the Jolly formula which don't give much time for all this manoeuvering! I realise that the Jolly formula isn't essential to the process, and that I might be able to use other developers with longer times to alleviate this latter problem.

I can see that I may have to use short rolls of film, and try a see-saw development in a makeshift tank.

A point of clarification on your formula please: This looks like a "double strength" (and adjusted for anhydrous carbonate from Jolly's formula), which is presumably why you are diluting it 1:1 for film? Would you make up the stock just before processing, or are you keeping a stock solution and then only diluting just before processing?

 

[Bob Carnie]

I mix from scratch each time.when I do solarizations I am working over a three day period, one day to balance my solarizing effect with my lighting, the next two days are processing the
film as I shoot, I use 4x5 and 8x10 FP4 or I do colour solarization. you can see the work at www.patersoncarnie.com

I never considered my formula double strength , did I make a mistake, if so thats a lucky one on me.


By using 35mm your situation is unique and if I may give you some suggestions on how to try your effect. I have used big refrema dip and dunk for 120 colour solarization in my past life.

I assume you have three deep tanks.... Dev then FLASH... Dev.... Stop... Fix..


if your tanks are put on the floor, and if you hold the film at each end and basically dip into the dev by bringing one end in completely then to the other end you are effectively processing your film like a dip and dunk machine would. SEESAW AS YOU STATE.
Also try using shorter rolls in the camera to save pain on your back.

FYI - I can do maximum 8 4x5 at a time or 2 8x10

so if you are using 24exposure film then you are good to go.
I would also do a normal.. -1/2 -1 exposure on every frame, bracket.. solarization likes less exposure, and you will get different maki line effects on each image which is an added bonus.

On your sink I would lay out a sheet of metal which is slightly longer than the film and below the flash... half way between the dev lay the film base down on the sheet and give a flash.
then continue on with your process as normal..
after fix you could roll the film back on the reel and wash as normal.

remember emulsion up for consistancy when flash , and for evenness make sure you get back into the developer fast with agitation. using a stop bath is manditory IMO and also wear gloves.

this will solve your inconsistency as I would think flashing on the reel would be very tough.

Thanks for the reply Bob. I had thought it might be "one-shot".

It really is very early days for me with this technique, so do please recognise I'm right at ground-level at the moment!
I also realise I'm on a well-trodden path, but I'm happy to discover shortcomings in techniques from my own attempts to learn, and don't mind repeating others' errors.

Given that I have constraints on facilities (I only have a very makeshift darkroom), I've started off using Paterson tanks and reels, the aim being to see if a workable & consistent process can be managed under those constraints. I see it as something I'll work on over a period of months to try and refine, so there's no rush.

My first attempts have been flashing on the reel, but there's the rub for consistency. One can do this perfectly adequately when doing full reversal, as of course that process is vastly less time-critical, but (as expected really) I've discovered how hard it is to get a uniform effect with the short flash times required for Sabattier doing things that way. Serendipity does produce the occasional lovely effect this way though ...

It is possible to unspool and respool the reel during development, of course, but this brings it's own difficulties of course of potential damage to the film, and perhaps problems with uniformity of development, let along the short development times for the Jolly formula which don't give much time for all this manoeuvering! I realise that the Jolly formula isn't essential to the process, and that I might be able to use other developers with longer times to alleviate this latter problem.

I can see that I may have to use short rolls of film, and try a see-saw development in a makeshift tank.

A point of clarification on your formula please: This looks like a "double strength" (and adjusted for anhydrous carbonate from Jolly's formula), which is presumably why you are diluting it 1:1 for film? Would you make up the stock just before processing, or are you keeping a stock solution and then only diluting just before processing?

 

[pdeeh]

Excellent stuff, thanks very much.

As for formulae, perhaps it's just the way you have expressed it made it look to me like "double strength".
I was using the formula given by Jolly here: www.cchem.berkeley.edu/wljeme/Chapt1.html

After considerable trial- and- error experimentation, we came up with the following formula (published in 1985) for a stock solution of "solarizing developer" ...
Metol 12.0 g
Sodium sulfite, anhydrous 37.6 g
Sodium carbonate monohydrate 41.0 g
Sodium bromide 4.8 g
Dissolve chemicals, in the order given, in about 850 mL of water at room temperature, and then dilute to 1 liter. For solarization of enlarging papers, dilute with an equal volume of water and use at 16- 18oC.

I'll try and report back in due course if I have any success (might be a few days, might be a few weeks).

I appreciate all your advice, so thanks once more.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Yes thats pretty much my mixture except I mix 12 litres of the stuff at a time and then separate dilute 1:1 for print into two different trays... the second tray , which is under the flash has 450 grams
of potassium Bromide...
This allows for the grain structure to change in the reversal area of the print which allows for more toning opportunities.
Mr Jolly talks about this in the manual under dual tone solarization I believe.


FILM ..... I just mix up 12 litres with his formula and do not dilute 1:1 as with paper. I replenish as I go along if I am working heavy. For FP4 I use 5 min.
I am going to move to Ilford Ortho 25 next year as a way of working in safelight, when I am using film.
You may want to consider this as your setup will be a bit more demanding than mine.


For me a session is about 100 sheets of 4x5 and maybe 25 sheets of 8x10 which get processed over the two days then I dump.
I have never understood the thinking of long term storage of working chemicals.

I do understand the D76 replenished line that some keep for years going to give a certain style of film, but in my world I prefer to use fresh, repeatable chemicals.


Also do you know the film solarization is what Man Ray did which gives the Black Maki line, and print solarization was championed by Ed Buffaloe will give a white Maki line
I do both methods and also combine the both so I have a white and black in the image... This is a never ending wormhole for you to follow with fantastic rewards.

Have fun with this, and post a couple of images.
Bob