Does it make sense to buy a film loader for bulk film?

[MattKing]

for C-41 colour, all the stocks one used to be able to get inexpensively have diapered

Isn't spell check grand!

 

[Mick Fagan]

C, welcome to the forum.

I've been using bulk film loaders for at least 50 years, I've tried various units but the best ones are/were made in Germany; which is where I picked up my first German one, a Kaiser unit.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kai...AUIDygC&biw=1536&bih=710#imgrc=cxV4zSjaBWsnaM:

There are various versions available, Hansa also from Germany. I have three Hansa units, two made in Germany the third made in Asia.

These units are excellent, they have a gate that opens so that the film does not get scratched and as you mention, you can load 3 frames or any variation up to around 37 frames.

As for whether they are worth it, I believe they are, even for colour film and also for any kind of film that you can get in bulk, often this can be motion picture film off cuts. If it is in the same format as 35mm film, then you can bulk load it.

As for film cassettes not lasting, well they do and they don't. I purchased a box of 40 of them around 25 years ago, I use them and use them and use them. Whenever I unload film onto a reel, I place the empty cassette in order of loading and don't move them until I have developed the film, which is loaded into the tank in the same order. If I note a problem, which can be as simple as a thread coming loose from the cassette light trap, then I either trim the loose thread, or discard the cassette.

I have about 10 new cassettes awaiting use. I do admit that these days I mainly use 10cm x 13cm (4x5") film and rarely use 35mm film, but these cassettes have done probably around 100 rolls in most of them. I rotate through approximately 15 cassettes and on the last trip I undertook to New Zealand earlier this year I took 18 rolls in re-loadable cassettes. All of those cassettes had been heavily used over some years.

Some of my bulk loaders.

Mick.

 

[AgX]

I've tried various units but the best ones are/were made in Germany; which is where I picked up my first German one, a Kaiser unit.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kai...AUIDygC&biw=1536&bih=710#imgrc=cxV4zSjaBWsnaM:

There are various versions available, Hansa also from Germany. I have three Hansa units, two made in Germany the third made in Asia.

-) The one you linked to is also offered by AP. (Thuse either made by AP or Kasiser, as some other Kaiser products too.)

-) I always thought Hansa to be a japanese, not a german brand.

 

[Ian Grant]

Doing some checking, my one supplier sells35mm FP4. at £5.15 per film and 30m for £68.21 which works out at £3.41 per reload.

When I started FP4 was £7.34 per 10 35mm 36ex rolls so approx 73p a roll, 100ft/30m was £4 so 20p a reload, FP3 ex Government surplus was £2 a 100ft/30m roll so 10p a reload.Back in the late 60's and the 70's the savings were very much larger. It's still worthwhile.

Ian

 

[summicron1]

one thing nobody has mentioned -- and admittedly it is to a small audience -- is specific cassettes for cameras such as Nikon and Leica rangefinders.

Leica cassettes, especially, are not hard to find for about $10 and if you shoot an older M camera (M1 through M4, plus the Barnack models that have keys on the baseplate) they are highly recommended because, due to their construction being solid brass, with gates, they both last forever and never ever scratch your film.

Reloading them requires a bulk loader that has knobs that engage the knob on the cassette and close the gate on it -- the Watson type do this, and I think a couple others of the same variety.

Guaranteed non-scratch, lifetime durability, plus the reduced cost of bulk film compared to individual rolls, makes these a good way to go if you shoot an older Leica. Plus, if someone tries to bum a roll of film off you, you can honestly say that your film won't fit their camera...unless they also have an older Leica.

 

[Clarimort]

Hey guys,


crap, I didn't even realize that I was posting in the color section. I shoot almost only black and white. Could a moderator maybe move my thread?

So yeah I am talking about b/w film. I like to try out different ways of developing and like to buy/repair cameras so I have a lot of film wasted for testing things out.

Your opinions are really different so I guess I'll just look on eBay and wait for a good offer. There are almost no film loaders on eBay in Germany right now unfortenately so I don't now if something is going to come up. A new one would cost me 70€ so I'd rather get a used one so I can sell it without that big of a loss if I find that it is not as useful for me.


Thanks to everyone for your replies!

C.

 

[darkroommike]

I don't think, in my opinion, your local shop will have bulk (100ft?) films in stock ever again. Those films were mainly for the school portrait cameras such as Camerz. Back then, when those long rolls cameras were popular the long roll films they used could be widely available. Now long roll films are probably no longer available. There were 35 mm, 46 mm and 70 mm long roll films back then. I have some of each of them (expired of course) in my freezer. I am very motivated to take them out to shoot. Have done it before so I owned many loaders (35 mm ones). But, you may still be able to find some expired ones on eBay from people who collected them but have no more desire to use them.

There were actually two types of bulk films, there were 35mm and 70mm perforated films, with both cine type BH perforations and the more standard type for still cameras. In it's heyday color print and color slide emulsions and popular black and white films were all offered, some surveillance films also offered and rarely available in pre-packaged cassettes. The second type were 100 ft bulk rolls intended for studio type "school" cameras, film was available in 35mm, 46mm, 70mm, and 105mm, stock was unperforated and mainly limited to "portrait" films, first in black and white and later color.

My preference is the Watson 100 loaders with the fixed door, made of polycarbonate, fixed door, and much less fragile than Bakelite.

 

[Clarimort]

I would like to do some math. I can't find a number on how many 36p rolls a 30m roll would make but I think I have read it would make 18 rolls of film. Is that right?

 

[summicron1]

I would like to do some math. I can't find a number on how many 36p rolls a 30m roll would make but I think I have read it would make 18 rolls of film. Is that right?

yeah, about 18 rolls of 36. figure 5 feet per roll plus some extra for leader.

the math for ilford in 100 ft rolls is quite favorable vs. individual rolls.

Plus, you don't have all that cardboard waste to deal with.

 

[mgb74]

I only use Bulk for B&W. I use an alden 200, BUT I swap the cassettes in the dark to avoid the fog on the end of teh roll that comes from using the bulk loader acording to the users manual.

Good practice as that last frame is where the best shot will be.

If you use just one camera and are very consistent with film length and loading procedures you can make a mental note of where the end of the roll should be. But if not, it's best not to risk it.

 

[removed account4]

i've got a lloyd bulk loader, have had it for 30 years and it has never treated me poorly. they sometimes sell for cheaps
( i mean less than a 10 euro ) make sure you inspect its felt and your re-usable cassets' felt often a grain of dust can ruin your whole day.

 

[Agulliver]

I have four bulk loaders. I was given one, I bought the other three on eBay auctions for no more than £16 each. Two Watsons and two Lloyds. They have pros and cons each, but on balance I prefer the lloyds type. But really, either gets the job done and there's a slightly higher chance of scratching the film with the Lloyds type - though this has not happened to me. I've been almost exclusively hand rolling my B&W film for five years now with this second hand equipment and have had just one problem....I partially fogged one roll of Kentmere 400 in a Watson loader when I realised I hadn't attached the lid properly. My fault entirely. 20 of the 30 photos were salvageable in any case.

If you intend to shoot a lot of rolls of one specific film...or a few specific films....bulk loading saves a lot. On today's prices I save approximately 50%. I have settled on Ilford HP5+, Fomapan 100 and Fomapan 200 as my main "go to" films and keep a bulk roll of each on the go.

With regard to anyone using colour film....availability is lower but Fuji Superia 400 does turn up in 100 foot rolls. Good if you develop your own C41 or if your friendly lab is happy to return your reusable cassettes.

For B&W, it's a matter of individual choice...depending on how much the 100 or 50 foot rolls cost compared to the number of pre-made cassettes you could get for the same price. Also if it's important to you that with bulk loading you can roll off any number of exposures that you desire. Just this week I've done a cassette of 16 exposures for a pinhole camera and 20 exposures for photographing a concert. Other uses for short runs, even shorter than mine, are testing cameras, testing lenses, specific projects which require only a few shots...etc.

 

[MattKing]

crap, I didn't even realize that I was posting in the color section. I shoot almost only black and white. Could a moderator maybe move my thread?

The moderators don't read every post, so if you would like to ask them to do something, the best way to ask is to "Report" an appropriate post (like this one) and include the request in your "Report".
I'll do that for you .

 

[Pioneer]

Good practice as that last frame is where the best shot will be.

If you use just one camera and are very consistent with film length and loading procedures you can make a mental note of where the end of the roll should be. But if not, it's best not to risk it.

That is where all my good shots have been going!!!

I shoot a lot of black and white and I hand load about 3/4ths of what I use.

I am a cheapskate so I watch the auction site and pick up 100 foot rolls of expired stock whenever it comes up at a good price. Right now i am loading TMAX 100, TriX400 and Arista EDU Ultra 400 but I have used lots of different films. At one time I was buying 400 foot rolls of Eastman Double X cine film but the prices have gone up to the point where that isn't as good of a deal as it once was.

I hand loaded for a long time without buying a bulk loader. I would seal the bathroom so it was dark, pull a 5 foot strip off the bulk roll (my bathroom counter is just under 5 foot) and then hand roll that onto a cassette. If I recall it was 35 exposures. The bulk loader is more convenient because I can load film at the kitchen table now, but if you are going to bulk load in the dark like some of these guys have suggested you probably don't even need the loader at all.

A lot cheaper to buy a 100 foot roll of film, a few re-usable cassettes, and load them up in the bathroom by hand. Seems difficult at first but after the first two or three you will be doing it like a pro.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

For short rolls for testing, bulk loaders are great.

On the other hand, if you want short rolls because you rarely need 36 exposures for a session, then I'd recommend switching to medium format, where the rolls are shorter and the quality is better, so long as you don't need super fast lenses as are available for 35mm.

For overall economy, you've just got to run the numbers with the film that's available to you and that you want to use. Bulk loaded film used to be reliably half the price of pre-loaded film, when all the film came from the same major distributors. I sold off my bulk loaders some time in the 1990s or early 2000s, I think, when the price of pre-loaded 35mm film got to be less than the price per roll of bulk loaded film of the type that I was loading (mostly Provia III 100) at the time, because B&H was sourcing bulk rolls and preloads from different suppliers.

 

[bdial]

One way of dealing with the short roll thing would be shoot what you need on a 36 exposure roll, open the camera in the dark, and cut off the exposed portion and load it on a reel for processing. In the light, cut a new leader on the unexposed portion and use the rest as needed.
Probably about the same amount of waste as making bulk-load 10 (or whatever) frame rolls.
This pre-supposes you're doing your own processing.

 

[koraks]

Note that the trick of cutting a roll in half while it is in the camera as described above works with many cameras, but not all of them like it. Particularly some cameras with automatic film transport require force to get the film off the spool. Obviously this is not good for the transportation mechanism.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

one thing nobody has mentioned -- and admittedly it is to a small audience -- is specific cassettes for cameras such as Nikon and Leica rangefinders.

Leica cassettes, especially, are not hard to find for about $10 and if you shoot an older M camera (M1 through M4, plus the Barnack models that have keys on the baseplate) they are highly recommended because, due to their construction being solid brass, with gates, they both last forever and never ever scratch your film.

Reloading them requires a bulk loader that has knobs that engage the knob on the cassette and close the gate on it -- the Watson type do this, and I think a couple others of the same variety.

Guaranteed non-scratch, lifetime durability, plus the reduced cost of bulk film compared to individual rolls, makes these a good way to go if you shoot an older Leica. Plus, if someone tries to bum a roll of film off you, you can honestly say that your film won't fit their camera...unless they also have an older Leica.

I don't know about Nikon, but on any Leica RF normal reloadable cassette is just less hassle.

 

[John Koehrer]

Wasn't it Exacta that had a film cutter built into the camera?-----------------Eh! Just another piece of useless information

 

[Ko.Fe.]

For short rolls for testing, bulk loaders are great.

On the other hand, if you want short rolls because you rarely need 36 exposures for a session, then I'd recommend switching to medium format, where the rolls are shorter and the quality is better, so long as you don't need super fast lenses as are available for 35mm.

For overall economy, you've just got to run the numbers with the film that's available to you and that you want to use. Bulk loaded film used to be reliably half the price of pre-loaded film, when all the film came from the same major distributors. I sold off my bulk loaders some time in the 1990s or early 2000s, I think, when the price of pre-loaded 35mm film got to be less than the price per roll of bulk loaded film of the type that I was loading (mostly Provia III 100) at the time, because B&H was sourcing bulk rolls and preloads from different suppliers.

Quality of MF comes with bulk and non existing ergonomics. Not everyone needs these limitations to get decent picture of something moving. Mf with af is just awful, IMO.
Here is no big deal to load 12 frames with bulk loader. Much cheaper than mf.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I would like to do some math. I can't find a number on how many 36p rolls a 30m roll would make but I think I have read it would make 18 rolls of film. Is that right?

For every 30m length of film, you will get 18 x 36 frame rolls and approximately one last roll of between 14 frames to 18 frames. The left over is more an indicator of how tightly controlled you are in snipping off the film out of the bulk loader gate.

Mick.

 

[AgX]

There were actually two types of bulk films, there were 35mm and 70mm perforated films, with both cine type BH perforations and the more standard type for still cameras. In it's heyday color print and color slide emulsions and popular black and white films were all offered, some surveillance films also offered and rarely available in pre-packaged cassettes. The second type were 100 ft bulk rolls intended for studio type "school" cameras, film was available in 35mm, 46mm, 70mm, and 105mm, stock was unperforated and mainly limited to "portrait" films, first in black and white and later color.

You speak for the USA or Canada.

In West-Germany I doubt 70mm film was used aside of aerial photography. And there was no single-portrait schoolphotography done, at least there was no respectiv camera.
(In all my schooldays I only once saw a photographer, doing a group portrait of us.)

 

[cmacd123]

And there was no single-portrait schoolphotography done, at least there was no respectiv camera.
(In all my schooldays I only once saw a photographer, doing a group portrait of us.)

we got individual shots every year, but they neglected to mention that one copy went into our school official file. I have seen folks sell surplus 46mm unperforated rolls of 160 pro colour film, so I believe that some of the cameras used 46mm. each class came down to a central spot, and the students were lined up in alabetical order. the first kid held up a chalk board with teh class number and then everyone had their picture taken in order. we would get a package of 1 5X7, 2 3 1/2 by 5, and a bunch of wallet size prints which we could buy or it had to be returned. No parent is going to NOT buy a picture of their kid.

 

[chip j]

Nikon cassettes for my F are a pure joy.

 

[mshchem]

Kodak use to offer pre cut bulk rolls to fit Leica cassettes. That was in the 40's and 50's. I have the Nikon cassettes that the gate opens when you turn the key to close the back. Never used one. Neat as can be