Do Paterson 35mm reels have a scratching problem?

[MattKing]

So I just dumped a ton of cans and can lids out of my bag. I think the problem was letting the film unspool in the bag with this debris, leading to scratches mostly in the non-emulsion side.

I hope you don't take this wrong, because your circumstances are mostly different from this.
When I sold cameras, customers would regularly come into the store and declare that there was something wrong with the product we sold them.
Sometimes there was, but other times .......

 

[RLangham]

I hope you don't take this wrong, because your circumstances are mostly different from this.
When I sold cameras, customers would regularly come into the store and declare that there was something wrong with the product we sold them.
Sometimes there was, but other times .......

Yes, there was a real problem behind the viewfinder on this one!

 

[BradS]

Yes, there was a real problem behind the viewfinder on this one!

Many of my cameras have a similar problem.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

So I was recently given a Paterson tank with two 35mm reels by a forum member here. I had used a Yankee Clipper for many years, and when it finally broke I went to using the Paterson exclusively. Since then I've been noticing a lot of hairline scratches on my negatives. They're very fine (naked eye can't see them on the film) and they go diagonally and horizontally relative to a landscape-oriented frame, never quite vertical. At first I thought it was a problem with my new Zenit, which was one of the first things I developed film from in the new tank. It was the first one where I noticed this pattern of scratching at any rate. Now, however, I've developed film from several cameras and cameras that never scratched my film before are showing the same scratches. I have not changed emulsions (Fuji X-Tra as always) and the cameras do not show any damage that might be scratching the film.

So it's the tank, I have to assume. Am I loading the film with poor technique? Is there something I can do to stop it?

Plastic or metal reels? Plastic reels never touch anything but the far edges of each side of the film. You load it by feeding the film into the reel gate until the two ball bearings catch, then ratchet it on.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I understood most plastic reels do, however, unless they're Jobo.

Jobo plastic reels come apart just fine, and are adjustable just like the paterson reels. I have several dozen of them.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I hope you don't take this wrong, because your circumstances are mostly different from this.
When I sold cameras, customers would regularly come into the store and declare that there was something wrong with the product we sold them.
Sometimes there was, but other times .......

In computer land, we call that an ID 10 T error, or the problems exists between the keyboard and the seat.

 

[bernard_L]

Do you alternate between pulling (say) 10 inches of film from the canister and then winding it on the spiral? Or do you somehow pull all the film out first, or maybe open the canister, and let the film curl onto itself in the dark?

 

[RLangham]

So I spooled my most recent two rolls in the darkroom instead of a bag and I have seen a drastic improvement, as several of you will have predicted. However I'm still seeing some small diagonal and horizontal scratches, coming out of multiple cameras whose film chambers I've gone over for anything that could be doing this.

I didn't let the film unspool and touch anything. What could still be causing this?

 

[MattKing]

Diagonal scratches are unlikely to come from a camera.
Are they from your fingernails?

 

[R.Gould]

How are you loading the film into the Reel, I would take the top of the canister, easy with long nose pliers, then let the film hang down with the spool as a weight, then when you have the start twist the two parts of the reel slowly let your thumbs lightly guide the film in, them when you want to undo the reel to release the film just twist the 2 parts against each other, that unlocks them and you can seperate the 2 parts, I have been loading Patersom reels ever since they first became available, and the plastic cannot scratch a film, only the edge of the film touches anything

 

[RLangham]

Diagonal scratches are unlikely to come from a camera.
Are they from your fingernails?

No, my fingernails are extremely short and I touch the film as little as possible. I genuinely don't think so at least

 

[RLangham]

Jobo plastic reels come apart just fine, and are adjustable just like the paterson reels. I have several dozen of them.

I didn't realize that these came apart. I didn't think to twist them past the catch.

 

[GRHazelton]

I've had good luck loading film at night in an upstairs bathroom, the door is "weatherstripped" and a rolled up towel against the sill crack stops a potential leak. I put the 35mm film, an old fashioned bottle opener to remove the cassette end, a pair of small scissors to trim off the film tongue, the Paterson reel or reels,the spindle, the tank, and the tank lid, of course. I put all these into a darkroom tray suitable for 11x14 paper. This is to prevent - I hope! - dropping something onto the floor! It is truly amazing how BIG a bathroom floor is in total darkness! So far this regimen has worked well.... BTW, long experience suggests that tiny slivers of light visible after 10 minutes or so seem to have no effect on the film, ASA 400 or below, nevertheless I do my best to avoid such.
After the proper wash I treat the film to Photoflo, attach the free end to a line stretched across the bathtub, and gently pull the film from the reel, without "opening" the reel. I have an understanding and supportive spouse, she has no problem with running the reels through the dishwasher.
Note! Tell other residents of your house to stay away while you're loading film!

 

[RLangham]

I've had good luck loading film at night in an upstairs bathroom, the door is "weatherstripped" and a rolled up towel against the sill crack stops a potential leak. I put the 35mm film, an old fashioned bottle opener to remove the cassette end, a pair of small scissors to trim off the film tongue, the Paterson reel or reels,the spindle, the tank, and the tank lid, of course. I put all these into a darkroom tray suitable for 11x14 paper. This is to prevent - I hope! - dropping something onto the floor! It is truly amazing how BIG a bathroom floor is in total darkness! So far this regimen has worked well.... BTW, long experience suggests that tiny slivers of light visible after 10 minutes or so seem to have no effect on the film, ASA 400 or below, nevertheless I do my best to avoid such.
After the proper wash I treat the film to Photoflo, attach the free end to a line stretched across the bathtub, and gently pull the film from the reel, without "opening" the reel. I have an understanding and supportive spouse, she has no problem with running the reels through the dishwasher.
Note! Tell other residents of your house to stay away while you're loading film!

I have a dark room set up. It's not difficult. I just tacked and taped up dark fabric on the window and hung a dark blanket on the outside of the door. It has a couple leaks but it's dark enough to develop sheet film in.

 

[RLangham]

SO I SOLVED THE PROBLEM. It wasn't primarily the empty film cans in the dark bag at all.

No, I started loading exclusively in the dark room to see if that would improve matters. It didn't, not at all. Then I realized I was making a very amateurish mistake. I have this microfiber brush that's designed to dust off vinyl records (yes, my generation listens to those too. They've actually passed CD sales again, which is quite a reversal). I'd been using it to dust off the film and the scanner platten (yes, I know we're in the analog-only area, so forget you read that) and it turns out, the little tiny soft bristles on this brush are more than enough to leave hideous scratches on the base side of the film and probably the emulsion side too. I started gently dusting the platten and film with a Mamiya microfiber lens-cleaning cloth that another forum member gave me, and the results I got improved dramatically in mid-roll.

Now, several of my otherwise good cameras do still have a problem with the pressure plate leaving straight-line scratches across the entire length of a roll, but that's a different issue that I can't really fix. Anyways those are much fainter.