Diy 8x10 enlarger vs vintage Elwood

[MTGseattle]

I know there are few threads in which people have made diy enlargers. I think there are more threads regrading light sources and/or enlarger controls. I searched and couldn't find a true diy 8x10 thread.

A pair (I think) of elwood 8x10 enlargers have cropped up for sale. They are 12 hours away. Regardless, I cannot employ them in my current house. The same could be said for a diy enlarger unless I want to check focus on my hands and knees.

I scanned the Glennview website the other day, and he shows a couple of homemade 8x10 units employing a big Polaroid copy camera body and large copy column. I know one can essentially use an 8x10 camera as an enlarger as well.

I'm up for a challenge/project, but I don't want to go nuts.

As a point of reference, the most recent 8x10 enlarger that was for sale locally was a super chromega F and sold for $1000. I can cobble together a lot of parts and materials for $1000.

The Elwood for sale is $250

I don't think the LPL4550 lends itself very well to modifications, so that option is dead on the table.

The proliferation of the 8020 aluminum extrusion stuff presents an interesting option for framework and bracing. I also like the idea of an old heavy stationary tool base (big drill-press and the like)

I'm curious what you folks think. I've read through a few of the elwood threads on the lfpf forum, so I know what the likely issues would be.

 

[mshchem]

I've used an 8x10 Elwood, if it is in decent condition $250 is cheap. These take big mogul base 300W enlarger bulbs that are not available, but a work around can be found. The inside of the dome is highly polished, beautiful. Everything else is wood or cast aluminum. These can fold and be used to project on a wall. They have a diffusion sand blasted glass and a heat absorbing glass. Lens boards are same as 5x7 and same as the Eastman Auto focus 5x7 enlarger.

I would definitely look very closely at the Elwood they work well.

 

[mshchem]

BTW, I've heard of people using vertical enlargers horizontally. I can't imagine how you could do that with an Elwood.

 

[grahamp]

How large do you print? My 8x10 modified Beseler 45 will do 16x20 (well it will once the drop table is completed!)
with the head at a decent height. The slanted chassis Beselers are not the easiest conversion - they really need a spacer to push the optical axis out from the frame to get clearance for the new light source - but they are obtainable.

Any conversion is going to need a suitable lens, negative stage, and light source. An existing 8x10 enlarger should have all that.

There is no way I'd be able to put an Elwood in my space - the ceiling is too low and I'd worry about the floor strength

 

[btaylor]

Is building your own 8x10 enlarger what you would like spending a lot of your time doing? Then yea, do it! I believe there was a thread over at LFPF of a guy that made one with the aluminum extrusion stock.
Or take the shortcut and buy the pre-engineered solution with all the bugs worked out and start printing. I drove a few hours about a decade ago to pick up a complete Omega F. It needed a lot of cleanup work before I would put it in the darkroom but I am glad I went that route. It’s stable, easy to focus and just works.

 

[ic-racer]

An Elwood still might require some work to get a good light source. Either repair and restoration of the original diffusion head or replacement with a LED head. At least you have the column, focus mechanism, baseboard already designed and built with the Elwood.

The column and head really need to be sturdy if making one yourself. Even my L1840 vibrates right after the lift motor turns off or if you accidentally bang the head or table.

 

[MTGseattle]

Thank you for the responses, everyone. This is mere thinking out loud at this point. I haven't heard back from the Elwood seller yet to hear about condition and parts that are on hand vs. missing.

As far as building one, The Glennview built ones use a Polaroid mp4xlr. I haven't read through enough product literature yet to determine if there is one specific model of mp4 that lens itself to these shenanigans or if any mp4 "head" will work. I know there is also some type of 8x10 copy adapter part/assembly involved as well.

as to printing down the road. I doubt I'll go past 20x24. the space required gets to be a bit much. 16x20 is likely where I will settle.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I took a copy camera from my school that was used for yearbook production, before it all went digital. I stripped it down, made a negative holder (with AN glass), stuck an Aristo 1212 head on top. Picked up a 240mm Schneider. Wall mounted it. Made some lovely 16x20's, and 20x24 prints... but then fell in love with Alt. processes leaving my DIY 8x10 enlarger to sit and gather dust. I recycled it, but still have the 1212 head, and lens.

 

[MTGseattle]

@Andrew O'Neill I may be sending you a pm.

I got a reply from the seller. it is 2 units. unit 1 is assembled and sounds to be mostly complete. (the many sheets of various glass these came with are a big question, but it seems like there are a few solutions) The 2nd unit is in pieces already and may not be complete. I'm waiting on pictures. I could conceivably kill a full weekend and get this done. I'm not sure when Ican can lose a full weekend to a completely gratuitous mission like this.

The 2nd unit may be missing the baseboard. Assuming this is from the 1940's, it's just a piece of wood right or possibly a wood/laminate surface?

 

[Alan9940]

Similar to Andrew, I built a neg holder back for my 8x10 Deardorff and a base out of plywood to mount the camera on and to hold an Aristo 12x12 unit. Used my Schneider 305mm G-Claron as an enlarging lens and used a metal wall easel that I bought from Ron Wisner. Paper was held with small magnets. I could do up to 20x24, but I printed mostly 16x20. It was a bit of a pain to ensure alignment, but I was pretty pleased with the prints.

 

[Paul Howell]

@Andrew O'Neill I may be sending you a pm.

I got a reply from the seller. it is 2 units. unit 1 is assembled and sounds to be mostly complete. (the many sheets of various glass these came with are a big question, but it seems like there are a few solutions) The 2nd unit is in pieces already and may not be complete. I'm waiting on pictures. I could conceivably kill a full weekend and get this done. I'm not sure when Ican can lose a full weekend to a completely gratuitous mission like this.

The 2nd unit may be missing the baseboard. Assuming this is from the 1940's, it's just a piece of wood right or possibly a wood/laminate surface?

I think a thick square of plywood 1" would work, can you tell from the working unit how it attaches to the baseboard? A lamp shop might be able to put a new socket and wire it up. If it were me I would first try a standard high output LED bulb, there is some afterglow with some so that afterglow would need to factored into exposure.

 

[mshchem]

@Andrew O'Neill I may be sending you a pm.

I got a reply from the seller. it is 2 units. unit 1 is assembled and sounds to be mostly complete. (the many sheets of various glass these came with are a big question, but it seems like there are a few solutions) The 2nd unit is in pieces already and may not be complete. I'm waiting on pictures. I could conceivably kill a full weekend and get this done. I'm not sure when Ican can lose a full weekend to a completely gratuitous mission like this.

The 2nd unit may be missing the baseboard. Assuming this is from the 1940's, it's just a piece of wood right or possibly a wood/laminate surface?

The aluminum baseboards are not as easy to use as a wood base. My buddy built a effective platform with some 3/4" plywood and 2x4s, used some wheels off an old lawn mower. Stands about 5 feet tall, 8 feet when raised up maximum, which is almost never. These are wonderful old machines. Get the parts enlarger too. The spring assists are the same as the 5x7, only where the 5x7 has one the 8x10 has 2.
The diffusion glass is a sand blasted "center filter" to help even the illumination. The heat absorbing glass is just glass. Carrier is glass in a wood frame. Awesome for putting your small roll film in and making 16x20 proof sheets. Some have filter drawers, never used that function.

 

[mshchem]

PS unless you have 10 ft ceilings you will be down on your knees.

 

[MTGseattle]

Until I can move and/or build a darkroom space, these will be cleaned and promptly mothballed, but like I said, 8x10 units don't surface very often out here, and I'm not sure I want to drive cross-country for a more recent version unless one pops up for nearly free.
The lens the gentleman was using on his is likely dated similarly to the enlarger itself; A kodak #36 Anastigmat 12" f4.5 or 45 he aslo says he has other 8x10 "stuff." I am intrigued, and may try and get the road-trip done on Veteran's Day weekend. Fingers crossed.

Aluminum baseboard? So, going by just one of the old product shots from Elwood literature floating around the web, the baseboard and 1st section of column are a single casting? Then the upper column and lamp/negative stage are bolted to the 1st section? It seems like the baseboard would then be more of a base platform and one would want a low table over that for one's easel? I may be missing the mark completely on this.
Or am I referencing the 5x7 version?

I'll do some more focused research.

 

[DREW WILEY]

A thousand dollars for an Omega F is dirt cheap unless it's in terrible condition or missing key components. Whether or nor you have space for it is another question. And you'd be surprised how much you need to spend to build a solid 8x10 unit by yourself unless your have a well equipped personal shop. But these kinds of projects can be fun and interesting, so good luck to you, whichever route you take.

 

[MTGseattle]

I'm reasonably well equipped, just horribly organized. Miter saw and table saw are in the garage, Band saw and drill-press in the basement, hand tools in cabinets in both places. I need about an hour of moving "stuff" to get ready for any production bigger than messing with lens boards. I need a shop space, but I'm in a very expensive zip code and must make do for now. I think the county is trying to pull a fast one too as I keep hearing tales of people's assessments skewing the land values higher and dropping the structure values. Topic for a different thread for sure. Sorry.
I was trying to keep the basement in darkroom mode which excludes making wood chips, but the enlarger may need to get tarped for a few upcoming projects now that we're headed into rainy season.

 

[DREW WILEY]

It's amazing what can be done with a mitre saw and basic drill press, plus a good set of clamps. But you'll want to connect your saw to a vacuum. I happen to have the luxury of a separate shop space and exceptionally high efficiency dust collection, but that certainly wasn't always the case. Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[MTGseattle]

When contemplating a diy enlarger light source, what should the parameters be? If an original bulb for the Elwood could be found what do folks think the color temp of that bulb would be? How much does that matter when we talk about black and white printing with modern variable contrast papers?

How about basic output power or lumens?

Lastly or firstly depending, would be whether my current timer could active the light as normal. I would need to match the electronics to what I have or find something that would work.

for reference points, I have a Gralab 450 and a Saunders et-400 available.

If we head into led territory, is a mixing chamber still important? I guess that depends upon a true home-built led array or a pre-made panel that has some type of cover over the diodes.

I know there are a few diy light source threads going, I'll check in on those.

 

[btaylor]

Yea, there was a thread some time ago on LFPF about LED light panels for 8x10 enlarger illumination. I made one for me Omega F. I used a panel designed for translucent displays I got from a sign supply company. With a little distance off the panel and a couple of layers of diffusion I got very even illumination. Exposure times for an 11x14 print from an 8x10 neg were about 25 seconds. Used 6” Ilford contrast filters under the lens.

 

[MTGseattle]

Another Elwood has come out of the woodwork and is much closer to me. This person also has an Aristo T12 cold light available. I've done some reading, and the cold light intimidates me a little bit but the ones that are large enough for 8x10 seem somewhat uncommon these days so I feel like I should grab it. I could cobble together a different light source down the road if necessary.
In one of the other forums it sounds like people have refurbished the Aristo units (not cheap), with help from Aristo. Can anyone say for sure whether that is still a valid option? It looks like Voltarc may be the manufacturer of the tubes?

 

[MattKing]

Another Elwood has come out of the woodwork and is much closer to me.

This makes me think of the Ents and Fangorn Forest

 

[MTGseattle]

Ha ha.

The only issue with the one closer to me is that it is missing its entire original light source and polished dome which locks me into grabbing the Aristo head.

 

[MTGseattle]

I picked up the Elwood that was down in Oregon. I left the strangely constructed wood base with the seller (I can do better). It came with the Aristo T12? It's the all-in-one unit that is 12x12 inches contained within a dark blue housing. I haven't done the math yet regarding 8x10 negative to 16x20 print from a 240mm lens and what my resulting head height from paper will be. I think I can try the thing out in my basement, but I will likely be printing on my knees.
I sourced an Apo-Nikkor 240mm f9 lens as a first try in a low ceiling room lens. I was expecting a much bigger overall lens for some reason. I'm surprised I don't see a bunch of these mounted in shutters. The threads must require adapters for the common shutters. Anyway, I have some other work to do; the unit needs a cleaning, the negative carrier is missing its glass and the "phlox" on the inside is very dirty so I may paint it or get a different flocking spray.
Is it called flocking in the camera industry? I know the slight texture helps mitigate reflections but all I can conjure up in my head regarding flocking are white Christmas trees?

 

[mshchem]

I picked up the Elwood that was down in Oregon. I left the strangely constructed wood base with the seller (I can do better). It came with the Aristo T12? It's the all-in-one unit that is 12x12 inches contained within a dark blue housing. I haven't done the math yet regarding 8x10 negative to 16x20 print from a 240mm lens and what my resulting head height from paper will be. I think I can try the thing out in my basement, but I will likely be printing on my knees.
I sourced an Apo-Nikkor 240mm f9 lens as a first try in a low ceiling room lens. I was expecting a much bigger overall lens for some reason. I'm surprised I don't see a bunch of these mounted in shutters. The threads must require adapters for the common shutters. Anyway, I have some other work to do; the unit needs a cleaning, the negative carrier is missing its glass and the "phlox" on the inside is very dirty so I may paint it or get a different flocking spray.
Is it called flocking in the camera industry? I know the slight texture helps mitigate reflections but all I can conjure up in my head regarding flocking are white Christmas trees?

Sounds like a great setup. You may need to use graded paper with the cold light????

16x20 from 8x10 is 2X enlargement. (Like a wallet print from 35mm )

The light source you have should allow you to put on a bench. The lens you have will be perfect, those lenses were used on process cameras, very nice.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

You will be extremely happy when you look at a 16x20, made from an 8x10 negative. Which 240 did you source? My Schneider 240 did an excellent job.