distiller.....losing battle

[mrred]

My water here seems to be rich is calcium and silt, as those are the deposits left behind in my distiller. It's getting harder to clean and a soak with some citric acid doesn't seem to cut it anymore.

Any suggestions?

 

[Rick A]

White distilled vinegar is what I used to have to clean my coffee machine when I lived in Texas, heavy lime build up. You can install an inline filter for sediment. If the vinegar isn't strong enough, try CLR , available at most hardware and building supply.

 

[TheMissingLink]

Perhaps stop bath .... ahm, diluted acetic acid at 20-30 percent would help I think or commercial decalcifier you can buy for coffee machines


horst

 

[mrred]

I'm not so concerned about the silt. The calcium deposits tend to grow and will get out of control, at some point.

Vinegar will only work to a point and I currently use a stronger concentration of Citric acid. When the deposits collect, they just get bigger. CLR as also proven quite useless.

 

[Old_Dick]

Walmart has a "cleaning" vinegar. I believe it is a bit more acid then just the regular variety. I'm in the same boat as you, in that we are high in calcium. A whole filter works well for sediment, helps protect dish/clothes washer, etc.


Dick Dionne

 

[Old_Dick]

Hi Peter,

If CLR doesn't work for you, then you have it worse then me. I'll be interested to hear what does work.

Good Luck

 

[mrred]

To put it in perspective, my distiller is 4 years old and it get's high usage around here. There are 3 cpap machines that use the water as well as my constant chemistry experiments. I make about 12 litres every week or so. I probably use a bit more distilled water because it is available.

So.... I have lost about %10-%15 of the bottom of the kettle so far. Not quite the end of the world, but signs I am losing. It looks like the deposit is increasing exponentially.

Muriatic acid (hydrocloric) apparently dissolves this stuff easily. But I think this is kinda like hammering a nail with a 20lb sledge hammer. I have some I made a while ago, but I wouldn't even know what strength to use it.

 

[Zelph]

Try stronger Citric Acid or acetic acid. Let soak for some time. Should do it tho you might need two or three treatments.

 

[eng1er]

Muriatic is definitely what you want if it doesn't have to be food grade. In the brewery I use a nitric/phosphoric blend to remove stone, but if it didn't have to be food grade, muriatic would be a better choice. Citric acid is ok for passivation, but won't get you very far in calcium or oxalate dissolution. Acetic is good for stop bath and vinegar (or building PAA), but it's not a cleaning acid.

 

[Dr Croubie]

If CLR doesn't work, is it really Calcium then? What's the distiller made of, copper, aluminium, glass?
Find your local chemical lab, or even better University, if it's something from the water supply they'll be having the same problem as you, ask them what they do.

 

[mrred]

It's stainless steel. White hard substance....looks like calcium to me....

 

[mrred]

I know a few chemists nearby. They use chromic acid. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

 

[cliveh]

I know a few chemists nearby. They use chromic acid. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

Try deionised water 30 seconds before drying.

 

[john_s]

With that much calcium, hydrochloric acid would be indicated in my opinion, subject to it not damaging the device. I think it would take a number of separate applications, as each batch would be neutralized as the calcium salts dissolve. Maybe a number of somewhat dilute applications would be better than using it more concentrated.

Sulfamic acid is sometimes recommended. It's safer than hydrochloric. It's the main ingredient in Steradent denture cleaner. It's available in big hardware stores as a cleaning agent for such jobs.

 

[Photo Engineer]

This is why few individuals elect to make their own DW. It is labor intensive as you note, due to cleanup, and it is expensive to run compared to cheap DW at the local store. And you don't need it.

All developers, fixers and other processing solutions are formulated to work with almost all water sources. The few water supplies that are not suitable can use that final rinse of DW which fixes up the problems.

PE

 

[alanrockwood]

If you want high purity water another option is reverse osmosis.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Scale composition depends on the local water supply:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouling
IDK if adding a chelating agent like calgon might reduce scaling.

 

[Xmas]

My water here seems to be rich is calcium and silt, as those are the deposits left behind in my distiller. It's getting harder to clean and a soak with some citric acid doesn't seem to cut it anymore.

Any suggestions?

My kettles for tea or coffee need descaling with a proprietary kettle descaler every 3 months or so although I include a proprietary stainless steel gauze bubble prompter. There are Hazmat warnings in packng...

You need to crush the bubble prompter in running water about once a month.

I live over a chalk acquifer, next to deep abstraction wells.

But PE (Ron) is correct scratch mixed from powder photo recipes work ok.

I do need to use vast amounts of surfant and a proprietary film squeegee.

Noel

 

[AgX]

One could try mechanical means.

Or heating without water, relying on the thermostat to prevent damage to the apparatus. The higher temperature within the kettle might make the build-up crack.

 

[fotch]

Lucky for me my cost from the grocery store is Distilled 99¢ Osmosis 30¢

 

[mgb74]

This is why few individuals elect to make their own DW. It is labor intensive as you note, due to cleanup, and it is expensive to run compared to cheap DW at the local store. And you don't need it.

All developers, fixers and other processing solutions are formulated to work with almost all water sources. The few water supplies that are not suitable can use that final rinse of DW which fixes up the problems.

PE

Are there parameters within the range of "all water sources" to consider? I.E. are there levels of specific compounds (calcium, etc) to stay within?

Does the composition of the water source effect results so that same film, same developer, same technique would yield different results if the water source is different?

 

[mrred]

This is why few individuals elect to make their own DW. It is labor intensive as you note, due to cleanup, and it is expensive to run compared to cheap DW at the local store. And you don't need it.

All developers, fixers and other processing solutions are formulated to work with almost all water sources. The few water supplies that are not suitable can use that final rinse of DW which fixes up the problems.

PE

I am driving challenged. Buying water that is not delivered is both impractical and costly, compared to me making it. The distiller is not primarily used for my chemistry and is needed.

I originally bought my distiller when I lived in a condo. I wasn't allowed to mess with the pipes. I live in a house now, but the distiller works too well to replace it.

I originally had issues with foma films and iron in the water. Distilled water resolved this problem.

The PH of tap water here is several points above 7. This does effect mixing developer(s).

And at the end of the day, some HCL cleaned up most of my mess.

 

[Bill Burk]

How about running reverse osmosis filtered water into the distiller?

 

[desertrat]

Sulfamic acid (not sulfuric) works almost as well as HCl as a descaler and doesn't produce the corrosive fumes. I get mine on Ebay, but some home improvement centers sell it as concrete/tile grout cleaner.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Custom-B...b-1-lb-Sulfamic-Acid-Cleaner-TLSAC1/100171510

 

[Photo Engineer]

Are there parameters within the range of "all water sources" to consider? I.E. are there levels of specific compounds (calcium, etc) to stay within?

Does the composition of the water source effect results so that same film, same developer, same technique would yield different results if the water source is different?

Only as far as humanly possible. Of course there will be outliers!

And, it is hard to reconcile waters sterilized with Ozone, Chlorine and Bromine, as well as waters with loads of effluent medications!

But, in general, there are no problems with tap water. The worst that is needed is a final rinse with DW or DW with Photo Flo.

PE