Discard Negatives ??!!!

[Alan Edward Klein]

You don't understand. When I sent my film for developing all I want is the negative. I don't care for the prints. I tossed the prints.

I understand. The prints are baggage for you.

 

[guangong]

This summer on a really hot day I intend to retreat to my always cool basement and begin to sort out my many decades of negatives. But way beyond a one day project.
I inherited a box of pictures and negatives from my grandparents that included one of my great-great grandmother, surrounded by her eight daughters (none of the sons included), one of whom was a famous stage star at later part of 1800s.

 

[Chan Tran]

Digital looks nothing like film (at least to my eyes).

Don't get me wrong, I shoot digital as well, and have tried just about every film sim out there (Film Pack, etc), but it's not the same.

Plus, film forces me to pre-visualise and concentrate more on process, rather than simply shooting shots like a machine gun.
I don't do commercial work on film, obviously.

I also certainly don't miss the hours/days spent in a darkroom printing a single 14x11 RA4 print.

If you sent in you film and only get the prints how do you previsualize the prints? They can be made in many different way depending on the person who did it. Only if you make the prints yourself then you can previsualize the print.

 

[gbroadbridge]

If you sent in you film and only get the prints how do you previsualize the prints? They can be made in many different way depending on the person who did it. Only if you make the prints yourself then you can previsualize the print.

You misunderstand.

I do not send in film for processing. I develop my own B&W and C-41 colour film.
I then scan and print digitally - then destroy the negatives.

Previsualisation is nothing new. I already decide before I release the shutter how the final print will look.
I save time doing post and printing digitally.

Anyway, I'm wandering off topic

 

[koraks]

then destroy the negatives.

Puzzling. They don't take up that much space; why not keep them around as a backup?

 

[gbroadbridge]

Puzzling. They don't take up that much space; why not keep them around as a backup?

If you're going to keep them around, why scan them in the first place?
And they do take up space, especially if you are downsizing

Negatives deteriorate, especially many bulk processed 1hr corner shop negs from the 80's and 90's.
Many of mine are severely faded/color shifted even though they have been stored in archival folders in better than average environmental conditions.
No point keeping them as the digital copy is the best backup they can have - just copy the file.

 

[koraks]

If you're going to keep them around, why scan them in the first place?

Because of the possibility to make prints and share/view digitally parallel?
Because of the physical backup it offers at no extra expense or effort?
Because of the possibility that digitization tech improves (which it has over the years) and it might be worthwhile to rescan a few down the road?

And they do take up space, especially if you are downsizing

Sure. Personally, I do manage to put up with a few folders of negatives. They take up less space than my partner, so when it comes to saving space, it's clear which would have to go first...lol!

No point keeping them as the digital copy is the best backup they can have - just copy the file.

We'll have another chat once your first ransomware experience has been digested

 

[gbroadbridge]

Because of the possibility to make prints and share/view digitally parallel?

But I can do that digitally
And to be honest, professionally I worked in darkrooms for a long long time. I'm honestly not going back.

Because of the physical backup it offers at no extra expense or effort?

Space is not free.

Because of the possibility that digitization tech improves (which it has over the years) and it might be worthwhile to rescan a few down the road?

I think we've reached the endpoint of scanning tech now.
I don't see many new scanners being made except for very specific industries where the price would be out of range of the hobbyist.
Once the archivists have finished that'll be the end of scanners, just like VHS.

Even medical scans, where resolution and accuracy are extremely important are all digital now.

We'll have another chat once your first ransomware experience has been digested

That will never happen Too many backups.

 

[koraks]

You be you, and all that
We all decide differently. The day I shut down the darkroom for good, I stop shooting film. Digital printing is a great thing, and paired with the quality and convenience of digital input, it's incredibly powerful.

I think we've reached the endpoint of scanning tech now.

Certainly not. Scanning doesn't require a scanner Digital cameras still evolve and they're by now proven technology to digitize film. Depending on the format, they compete with dedicated film scanners in the higher consumer range.

Even medical scans, where resolution and accuracy are extremely important are all digital now.

Of course. Convenience, turnaround time, labor/automation (esp. AI-assisted diagnostics) and cost play a massive role.

That will never happen Too many backups.

The unsinkable ship
Like you, I put much faith in the durability of digital data. At the same time, I'm painfully aware of the systemic threats associated with this, at both the organizational/social and technical levels. Then again, my original background is not in photo labs, but in information management. I suppose that makes it hard for me to ignore how much of a sitting duck all of us are. A little hubris every day keeps the psychiatrist away!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you're going to keep them around, why scan them in the first place?
And they do take up space, especially if you are downsizing

Negatives deteriorate, especially many bulk processed 1hr corner shop negs from the 80's and 90's.
Many of mine are severely faded/color shifted even though they have been stored in archival folders in better than average environmental conditions.
No point keeping them as the digital copy is the best backup they can have - just copy the file.

Thing with scanning is you can make slide shows with or without music background and add audible comments about the scene or person shot. Then dump the show on a memory card to give to your relatives.

 

[VinceInMT]

If you're going to keep them around, why scan them in the first place?
And they do take up space, especially if you are downsizing

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I scanned everything, negatives, slides, and prints for which I don’t have the negatives, and have them catalogued in a custom database that I wrote. The database is served up on a web server on my home network that allows me to search by date, subject, etc. and then view the images individually or as a contact sheet by roll. I can then choose to use the image digitally or easily find it to print in the darkroom.

As for downsizing, I’d be getting rid of some of my vintage cars before I worked my way down to getting rid of my film And I’m not getting rid of any cars. Space isn’t a problem here.

 

[Sirius Glass]

But I can do that digitally
And to be honest, professionally I worked in darkrooms for a long long time. I'm honestly not going back.



Space is not free.



I think we've reached the endpoint of scanning tech now.
I don't see many new scanners being made except for very specific industries where the price would be out of range of the hobbyist.
Once the archivists have finished that'll be the end of scanners, just like VHS.

Even medical scans, where resolution and accuracy are extremely important are all digital now.


That will never happen Too many backups.

I never thought that I would have a darkroom, much less one that can develop and print both color and black & white, yet at the age of 61 I set one up and still have it. As far as the archievability of digital files, my computer science background started in 1963 and includes teaching Electrical Engineering and Computer Science to seniors and graduate students in a univerisity, I can tell you that despite the best efforts at preserving digital date my experience at many engineering companies and The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is that digital data is not archival and can be lost even with the best backup systems. Storage of photographs on film is space efficient much more archival. Then again if your photographs are not worth keeping …

 

[tokam]

Preservation of digital archives is indeed a big worry. I am looking for software that will take 'snapshots' of the checksum values of files in a directory which I can run periodically and compare to see if file contents have changed on disk. If I find anomalies I would be able to refresh that copy of the file from a good copy on another backup disk.
I come from a mainframe programmer / data analyst background and am toying around with Python at the moment so in a couple of months time I could probably knock something up for myself.

Another long shot could be to use M-Disks for backup although the availability of DVD / BD players in the future is problematic.

 

[AKodakZen]

There is a lab near me that will automatically destroy negatives if you request that scans be delivered by email. The explanation was that they had to many people not coming in and picking up their negatives once they had the scans. So in the end I might blame the customers more than the lab. Plus, when I use them, I just drop off a USB drive for the scans and it’s the same price

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

There is a lab near me that will automatically destroy negatives if you request that scans be delivered by email. The explanation was that they had to many people not coming in and picking up their negatives once they had the scans. So in the end I might blame the customers more than the lab. Plus, when I use them, I just drop off a USB drive for the scans and it’s the same price

How do they deliver by email? isn't there too much data? What byte size each picture? (35mm?)

 

[takilmaboxer]

Alan, There are third party online service providers that can transfer large files. My local lab in Albuquerque uses one; you can send files to be printed and pick the prints up the next day; and have your scans sent to you when you develop film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Alan, There are third party online service providers that can transfer large files. My local lab in Albuquerque uses one; you can send files to be printed and pick the prints up the next day; and have your scans sent to you when you develop film.

Oh, OK. It's not by email but rather by downloading the data from another site.

 

[guangong]

I never thought that I would have a darkroom, much less one that can develop and print both color and black & white, yet at the age of 61 I set one up and still have it. As far as the archievability of digital files, my computer science background started in 1963 and includes teaching Electrical Engineering and Computer Science to seniors and graduate students in a univerisity, I can tell you that despite the best efforts at preserving digital date my experience at many engineering companies and The Jet Propulsion Laboratory is that digital data is not archival and can be lost even with the best backup systems. Storage of photographs on film is space efficient much more archival. Then again if your photographs are not worth keeping …

Ditto! I began working with computers around the time of Sputnik. An IBM that used vacuum tubes. Motion pictures, even when shot digitally are transferred to film for storage and preservation. Those little 1s and 0s tend to wander.

 

[AKodakZen]

How do they deliver by email? isn't there too much data? What byte size each picture? (35mm?)

I haven’t done it but I’m pretty sure it’s some sort of online file holder like Dropbox or something similar

 

[AKodakZen]

Oh, OK. It's not by email but rather by downloading the data from another site.

Yes that’s probably a more accurate way to say it

 

[foc]

Oh, OK. It's not by email but rather by downloading the data from another site.

The usual way is by file sharing like Dropbox, Google Drive or WeTransfer. The file sizes depend on the scan resolution size with the lab.
The email is the link to the file share.

 

[VinceInMT]

Preservation of digital archives is indeed a big worry. I am looking for software that will take 'snapshots' of the checksum values of files in a directory which I can run periodically and compare to see if file contents have changed on disk. If I find anomalies I would be able to refresh that copy of the file from a good copy on another backup disk.
I come from a mainframe programmer / data analyst background and am toying around with Python at the moment so in a couple of months time I could probably knock something up for myself.

While I know a little Python, I am more fluent in PHP and wondered if the ChatGPT software could generate code to do what you are thinking of: generate an MD5 hash for a series of files and compare those to files in another source. Yes, it can. A bit more tweaking and copying from a backup source would be easy.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Thing with scanning is you can make slide shows with or without music background and add audible comments about the scene or person shot. Then dump the show on a memory card to give to your relatives.

And I wonder where the relatives will dump the memory card? ;-)

It's far better to gather the relatives together in a room and turn out the lights so they can't find the exits until the slideshow is over!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And I wonder where the relatives will dump the memory card? ;-)

It's far better to gather the relatives together in a room and turn out the lights so they can't find the exits until the slideshow is over!

It's always helpful to have some relative's pictures in the show.

 

[wiltw]

So, I went to the local lab to pick up some 120 color negs and prints. This lab recently moved to a location close to the University and appears to be popular with the 20 somethings. There behind the counter was a stack of stuff ready for pickup, and written on the one on top of the stack was "D/P/Scan, Discard negatives." WHAT???!!! I asked the counter person what is was about and she said it's common; once the kids have the scans and prints they don't want the negs. I thought of the 100 years of family history that I have at home in the form of negatives, and said, "you know, 50 years from now someone's going to publish a book of photos printed from discarded negatives, and get famous for it." She giggled, but then her eyes twinkled, like maybe she had an idea...

In response to that 'scan and discard' story, I think...

1. what if the sailor at Pearl Harbor took photos with his camera, got the film processed and printed, got the prints back and trashed the negatives...and then the prints got lost or ruined in a flood? The images would have been lost to historians.
2. What if I took photos of Kamala Harris as VP visitng San Francisco, processed the film and had them scanned and threw away the negatives, and the harddrive that I stored the photos on could no longer function (because of head crash) and the DVD-RW with the scanned images degraded the reflective layer so that data was irretrievable...and she became the first female President of the US? The images would have been lost to historians.

Folks think they do not 'lose' digital data, not comprehending that it is hard to find a ST-506 controller for 1988 harddrive that will fit into a 2022 PC bus, so the data on that 1988 harddrive is now irretrievable.