Diluted Xtol, have you read this?

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 5, 2019

Apart from the : vs. + common confussion with dilutions (please note it's : what's used by Kodak here...), the changing amount of stock developer used is... a new thing to me... Replenished Xtol is great, no doubt, but couldn't it be dilutions can work better than it's known, basically because of users' less than optimal calculations?

I found this, from years ago, without further comments from other members:

"My 2002 Kodak B/W Darkroom Dataguide, Sixth Edition, which was still suggesting Xtol developer dilutions noted the following information, from pp. 10:

"When using full-strenght solution, use at least 150ml of developer per roll. With 1:1 dilution, use 200ml per roll; with 1:2 dilution, use 250ml per roll; with 1:3 dilution, use 350ml per roll."

"Per roll" is assumed to be 80 sq. in.

-F.

David Lyga · Jan 5, 2019

I warn all reading this: if you dare to dilute XTOL you are at risk of obtaining nothing or an image greatly compromised in quality. On the other hand, you just might get a perfect image. Water quality becomes a major concern with this developer. And ... this is one of the few developers out there which shows no visible signs of turning bad. An oxidated (thus useless) XTOL looks just as good as a robust one. I never use this developer. - David Lyga

Neal · Jan 5, 2019

The current datasheet suggests 100ml of stock per roll as does the datasheet dated April 2000

I always mix chemicals with distilled water. My experience with Xtol has been that it has never failed me. I have used it almost exclusively for the last 16 years and most of the time for at least 2 years before that. Two further notes. I use it so frequently, it is a rare year that I don't use up 5L in 6 months and because I use Jobo rotary tanks, I rarely use dilutions greater than 1+1.

Now that all of that is out of the way, I find that 75ml of stock per roll works without issue when rotary processing in Jobo 25XX tanks. This has held true even on those rare occasions where I go back to a 1+3 dilution on a lark.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

ic-racer · Jan 5, 2019

Thank you for pointing out the error. With those recommendations, one would need some huge bucket; 8,400 ml to process 8 rolls!

Kawaiithulhu · Jan 5, 2019

Neal said:
current datasheet suggests 100ml of stock per roll

I recently got a Jobo 1500 series tank (came with some other jobo stuff) and it's wonderfully efficient for one roll, but at 1:1 XTol dilutions to do two rolls would require 400ml soup, and that tank overflows when used on a roller. Fortunately I usually only do one roll at a time (I don't shoot that much) and my main tank is a 2500 that works with 400ml easily. So please do be careful of the setup you develop in!

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 5, 2019

I used this developer exclusively in the latter part of the 90's and then on and off from about 2003, and it never once failed me. 125 ml stock diluted 1+1 for one 8x10 sheet in tubes. That same amount would develop four, 4x5 sheets, also in tubes. All my Japan coal mining negatives (hundreds of sheet film and roll film) were developed in Xtol 1+1.

NB23 · Jan 5, 2019

Absolutely great developer.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2019

As noted above [edit add: highly]diluted XTOL has its risks. I have used replenished XTOL for over a decade without problems resulting in greater sharpness, smoother tonal range and a slight boost in film speed. Furthermore it is much much cheaper to used replenished XTOL than diluted XTOL. So if you do not want to save money and have poor results, then continue using diluted XTOL.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 5, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
As noted above diluted XTOL has its risks. I have used replenished XTOL for over a decade without problems resulting in greater sharpness, smoother tonal range and a slight boost in film speed. Furthermore it is much much cheaper to used replenished XTOL than diluted XTOL. So if you do not want to save money and have poor results, then continue using diluted XTOL.

I never got poor results with diluted Xtol.

Arklatexian · Jan 5, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
As noted above diluted XTOL has its risks. I have used replenished XTOL for over a decade without problems resulting in greater sharpness, smoother tonal range and a slight boost in film speed. Furthermore it is much much cheaper to used replenished XTOL than diluted XTOL. So if you do not want to save money and have poor results, then continue using diluted XTOL.

Sirius, when you mix XTOL from powder to make the stock solution, do you use distilled water or "tap" water? I would think the "keeping" qualities would be better if you do. True or false? Also, if you did dilute stock, would you use distilled water or "tap" water?......Regards!

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 5, 2019

If it's any help, I always used distilled water to make the stock and tap water to make the working solution.

removedacct1 · Jan 5, 2019

Anyone who uses aging/questionable developer without first testing its activity on a snippet of film beforehand, has only themselves to blame for the outcome, not the developer formula.

Peter Schrager · Jan 5, 2019

I dilute my xtol with orange juice for that extra added vitamin boost....oh seriously when wil people give it a rest.
I have several thousand negatives that say it works perfectly diluted....what have you got to show me???

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2019

Andrew O'Neill said:
I never got poor results with diluted Xtol.

Of course because you

Arklatexian said:
Sirius, when you mix XTOL from powder to make the stock solution, do you use distilled water or "tap" water? I would think the "keeping" qualities would be better if you do. True or false? Also, if you did dilute stock, would you use distilled water or "tap" water?......Regards!

Los Angeles has very hard water. I have found no problems using tap water for mixing chemicals. Most water sources will work for mixing chemicals, but if one has problems with the water, then use distilled water.

Richard Man · Jan 5, 2019

There is so much "I don't use Xtol because it's unreliable" posts that it's not even funny. What's funny is that AFAICT, there has not been a known case of failure other than the initial reports.

I use 80ml, 1+1, or 1+2, and rarely 1+3 because why not, and have not have a problem, and I have been processing with Xtol+Jobo since 2004.

NB23 · Jan 5, 2019

1:1 is Awesome!

Works every time.

Smooooth and relaxed.

removed account4 · Jan 5, 2019

Richard Man said:
There is so much "I don't use Xtol because it's unreliable" posts that it's not even funny. What's funny is that AFAICT, there has not been a known case of failure other than the initial reports

i have hardly ever read any xtol failure posts on this website. i am usually the person who has posts describing
lack of density and contrast in my IDK 4-5 years of xtol negatives ... im guessing if i mxed a little ansco 130 in it, i'd still
be using it .. usually the posts here about xtol are like a cheerleading squad

Peter Schrager · Jan 5, 2019

jnanian said:
i have hardly ever read any xtol failure posts on this website. i am usually the person who has posts describing
lack of density and contrast in my IDK 4-5 years of xtol negatives ... im guessing if i mxed a little ansco 130 in it, i'd still
be using it .. usually the posts here about xtol are like a cheerleading squad

John send me your next roll and I'll develop it for you....I'll even pay shipping both ways

Peter Schrager · Jan 5, 2019

jnanian said:
i have hardly ever read any xtol failure posts on this website. i am usually the person who has posts describing
lack of density and contrast in my IDK 4-5 years of xtol negatives ... im guessing if i mxed a little ansco 130 in it, i'd still
be using it .. usually the posts here about xtol are like a cheerleading squad

Ok xtol is about $9 per bag. Gives you 5 liters
And stores almost indefinitely in filled proper glass bottles. I get full film speed
I have used it since it was released and have made great negatives and more important killer prints from those negatives. Oh and you mix up in a pail....any developer works I just made this one mine. I could care less about the developer flavor of the week crowd.

mshchem · Jan 5, 2019

Kawaiithulhu said:
I recently got a Jobo 1500 series tank (came with some other jobo stuff) and it's wonderfully efficient for one roll, but at 1:1 XTol dilutions to do two rolls would require 400ml soup, and that tank overflows when used on a roller. Fortunately I usually only do one roll at a time (I don't shoot that much) and my main tank is a 2500 that works with 400ml easily. So please do be careful of the setup you develop in!

This is the absolute truth. If you use a 1510 tank for 35mm there's room for 140mL of solution in rotation. For XTOL that allows for stock only . Use a 1520 tank and 1 roll it's something like 270mL capacity. I've been using XTOL since it debuted. I recommend using the 100mL minimum established by Kodak.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 5, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Of course because you

...or maybe just lucky?

mshchem · Jan 5, 2019

Peter Schrager said:
Ok xtol is about $9 per bag. Gives you 5 liters
And stores almost indefinitely in filled proper glass bottles. I get full film speed
I have used it since it was released and have made great negatives and more important killer prints from those negatives. Oh and you mix up in a pail....any developer works I just made this one mine. I could care less about the developer flavor of the week crowd.

Absolutely correct.

Juan Valdenebro · Jan 5, 2019

Perhaps nobody's using those dilutions (like 1+2 and 1+3) with Kodak's recommendations in the way the first post states: using more stock xtol than it's commonly known...
Instead of considering it an exaggeration by Kodak, I'm really interested: maybe 1+3, that way, works very well... Or 1+2... Not about economy at all: I like very sharp grain, and I use a condenser enlarger...

NB23 · Jan 6, 2019

jnanian said:
i have hardly ever read any xtol failure posts on this website. i am usually the person who has posts describing
lack of density and contrast in my IDK 4-5 years of xtol negatives ... im guessing if i mxed a little ansco 130 in it, i'd still
be using it .. usually the posts here about xtol are like a cheerleading squad

Mixing developers is the worst thing one can do because developers work at different ph, therefore mixing them will weaken the solution.

Lots of people will add a “dash” of rodinal to, say, D76 in order to get more grit out of their negatives. No jokes, I’ve read this a lot over the years. It’s just as funny as relying on stand development to reduce grain.

Lotsa myths going on.

Alan Johnson · Jan 6, 2019

I make up Xtol with tap water (it has an ingredient to stop hard water precipitating out) and store it in sealed glass bottles, topped up with Tetenal Protectan spray when part used.
Sometimes I use it 1+3 to give more acutance with landscapes, it also gives an S shaped curve.
100 ml Xtol + 300 ml water suggests the minimum tank size is 400 ml. Here are the Kodak times , table 2.1 for 1+3:
http://wwwfr.kodak.com/AT/plugins/acrobat/de/professional/xtolEntwickler.pdf

Diluted Xtol, have you read this?

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Diluted Xtol, have you read this?

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