Diffusion Transfer Printing ("Polaroid" peel-apart) recipes

[alecrmyers]

The state of play is that I have a single combination of film, developer and receiver paper that produces good positive images.

To summarize the things I'm still working on, or would like to find:

A developer that uses more traditional thiosulphate/phenol-based chemistry, which would be more accessible.

A stripping layer that helps residual developer peel off the positive more cleanly. At the moment the very thin layer of developer that remains can crystalize and produce white powder or haze on the surface of the print (salting out). This can be prevented by rinsing or wiping the print, but it would be nice to avoid that need.

Alternatively/additionally a volatile silver solvent, or one that works at a lower pH than uracil/thymine and other cyclic imides, which would reduce the solids left on the surface of the print.

If anyone wants to help with these, that would be very welcome.

 

[richyd]

Indeed, you have accomplished amazing results for one person that what work very well. I have had good results from the material and would be quite happy to use what you have produced up to now. I did make up some developer to a partial recipe you published earlier in the thread using regular development ingredients but the result was weak and yellowy.

I don’t have the resources now to pursue, either in chemistry (my knowledge is over 40 years forgotten) nor in space and equipment. I can make up my own developers to known formulae but that’s about it. A serious health issue has re-surfaced as well so am on treatment again which will impact my time for projects.

I must say I didn’t notice much of a residue on my prints but having said that I just tried rinsing a few of them and yes it is noticeable. But working in a darkroom and having to rinse the paper is not a problem. More worryingly is that with the papers I coated the image will rub off under water.

Going forward it depends what your goals are. Do you want to create a full peel apart product and get others to help with the practicality of the mechanical side of that.? Or just create the product formulas for others to do their own thing. For myself I would be quite happy to use your current developer, it works well and lasts a long time.

 

[alecrmyers]

Indeed, you have accomplished amazing results for one person that what work very well. I have had good results from the material and would be quite happy to use what you have produced up to now. I did make up some developer to a partial recipe you published earlier in the thread using regular development ingredients but the result was weak and yellowy.

That needs more work from someone. I'm still working on it, but more hands will help.

More worryingly is that with the papers I coated the image will rub off under water.

If you wait approx 24 hours after coating the silica, it forms a hard waterproof coating. If you use the paper right after coating the silica isn't set and will wash off easily. The image tone is also better after at least a day of drying.

Going forward it depends what your goals are. Do you want to create a full peel apart product and get others to help with the practicality of the mechanical side of that.? Or just create the product formulas for others to do their own thing. For myself I would be quite happy to use your current developer, it works well and lasts a long time.

I'd like to have sets of recipes that span the gamut of the well documented technologies that Fuji and Polaroid used.

 

[Qebs]

Here are some links regarding Polaroid Coating.

The first mentions these chemicals in the coating liquid:
Isopropanol/Isopropyl alcohol, 5-15%
Zinc acetate dihydrate, 2-5%
Glacial acetic acid, 3-7%

What is in the Polaroid print coater? - Photo.net B&W Photo - Printing & Finishing Forum

Discuss black and white photography, from film to finishing, with the members of Photo.net.

web.archive.org

Photoengineer makes two comments here and PVC glue is mentioned:

What's in a Polaroid print coater?

I looked up the MSDS for the print coater goo, and got the following info: Isopropanol/Isopropyl alcohol, 5-15% Zinc acetate dihydrate, 2-5% Glacial acetic acid, 3-7% However, not only are these percentages VERY approximate, but the MSDS is not required to list "chemicals present in the...

www.photrio.com

The MSDS:

Wayback Machine

 

[alecrmyers]

Thank you - that's very good to have for reference.

I haven't noticed any of the symptoms of requiring a coating on any of the prints I've made, and I have a batch of original Polaroid print coaters thanks to a generous Photrio member - which don't improve print quality when I've tried them, so for now a print coating doesn't seem to be a priority, for anyone who's intending to try this.

 

[Qebs]

Your very welcome Alec!

-
Would we all feel comfortable sharing our sources for chemicals.
Maybe if we all shared it would help each other and people whom have not yet found this forum thread.
I've used LLMs like chagpt/deepseek to search for average prices and possible sources with accurate success.
Let's share
Alec are you okay with this? If you don't want this in your thread, I can delete.

This took a while to figure out by trying different prompts and combining outputs but this is what I got with deepseek. This might help others in Canada/North America
The LLM claimed these suppliers had the best prices.

| **Chemical** | **Supplier** |
|-------------------------------|-------------------------|
| **Sodium Hydroxide** | Windy Point Soap |
| **PVP** | Bio Basic |
| **CMC** | MessySupplies |
| **Uracil** | BioShop Canada |
| **DEHA** | Alphachem Limited |
| **AEEA** | Alphachem Limited |
| **Metol** | The Camera Store |
| **Sodium Borohydride** | Fisher Scientific |
| **PdCl₂/HCl (0.1%)** | Argentix |
| **Silica Solution** | Quantum Paint |






If anyone is going to source from Alibaba I just found this a.i. powered Alibaba Chemical sourcing website: https://www.accio.com/

 

[alecrmyers]

I listed a bunch of sources in posts near the top of this thread. Silica sol, sodium and potassium hydroxide, and CMC are widely avallable on Amazon. Sodium hydroxide is even more available, at almost any local hardware store. I posted a link upthread for DEHA also on Amazon (US only). Argentix doesn't list Palladium, but you can email Jaques and encourage him to get some. Artcraft Chemicals (https://artcraftchemicals.com/) lists palladium chloride, and is probably worth asking about the other hard to get stuff as they specialize in individual requirements, but I don't know if they ship outside the US. Alphachem lists palladium chloride but they no longer carry much of what is listed on their website. Aliexpress is good for some things too.

Generally AI isn't very accurate for anything chemistry-related. It's good at stringing words together, but they don't usually correspond to reality.

 

[doctorpepe]

This is an awesome set of correspondence. I was wondering if anyone had tried this using the self-sealed Polaroid films (sx70/600 series) by placing paper inveteeem the exposed negative and the clear Mylar front. I have Polaroid (new stuff which produces an integral image) in 8x10 which might allow me to place a paper sheer underneath the clear Mylar “receiving” sheet and then process. Didn’t want to reinvent the wheel.

 

[alecrmyers]

That's a derail for this thread, since we're not discussing New Polaroid materials here, and what you're asking about is a very different set of chemistry. Why don't you start a new thread?