From what I'm reading, all it takes is a few decades displayed. No mention in the link below of any torture test being applied. When you write "the he worst you are going to likely do is bleach out the brightener", that's significant. From what I'm reading, those brighteners add a lot to the viewing quality of the print. As I mentioned, one poster commented that an Amsel Adams print was changed in such a way that it wouldn't be sale-able. I find that disconcerting.
https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/optical-brighteners-obas/
It's you insisting you alone are correct, what I say is that both ways are totally correct:
> taking a linear capture and compressing what necessary to fit the excessive range in the negative into the 2.1D range of the paper
> refining the exposure-processing to get a negative that will print easily like we want, and making those compressions with the help of toe/shoulder,
Many artists have exploited and exploit the second way with perfect results, as perfect than those from first way. In fact the entire Zone System it's based in explaining what zones are compressed or not in the toe or shoulder, depending on exposure/processing. No need to follow the ZS, and linear films are less suitable for the ZS recipe, but they way we use is a personal choice.
No silver paper from Ilford or Foma has OBA's? Do you have a source for that? I really have my doubts about that, as the poster I read seemed to know what he was talking about, and said few, if any wet printing silver papers have no OBA's.
I also believe that Rodinal is finer-grained than its reputation.So I exposed a roll of Tmax 400 and developed in Rodinal. This film is amazing, but I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for. The images are ultrasharp, with a very fine grain, only really visible if you view the 24MP RAW files at 100%. Even then, it's still quite fine. At a more reasonable 70%, the grain is almost invisible, and the details I could cut with a knife. This is all too digital looking for me....too perfect. I might try Ilford HP5 in HC-110. Its curve looks straight, somewhat like Tmax's, I am sure i can get more grain.
Not a bad way to start out with your experiments, but there are some things to be aware of.What do you think of this idea? Instead of making silver prints by projection from an enlarger, suppose I print a large negative from an inkjet from my digitized 35mm negative, and then contact print on silver paper? It would be one generation down, so, theoretically worse quality than projection, but on the other hand, a whole lot can be done in photoshop to fix that file up before printing.
Not a bad way to start out with your experiments, but there are some things to be aware of.
Most digital printers offer less resolution than an optical enlargement can achieve.
That can be partially offset by making the digital negatives larger, which permits larger contact prints, which lead to greater viewing distances.
That is why a lot of people who are using digital negatives - whether with the traditional processes or with silver gelatin - try to make them larger than 8x10 - 11x14 and 13x9 being popular choices.
The real question is whether you like how the digitized image looks when produced this way - particularly in comparison with the more random distribution of film stored information printed optically.Well, there's not too much to resolve in my negs....mostly portraits. I don't want to resolve pores.
What do you think of this idea? Instead of making silver prints by projection from an enlarger, suppose I print a large negative from an inkjet from my digitized 35mm negative, and then contact print on silver paper? It would be one generation down, so, theoretically worse quality than projection, but on the other hand, a whole lot can be done in photoshop to fix that file up before printing.
All modern papers are loaded with OBA's.No silver paper from Ilford or Foma has OBA's? Do you have a source for that? I really have my doubts about that, as the poster I read seemed to know what he was talking about, and said few, if any wet printing silver papers have no OBA's.
I also believe that Rodinal is finer-grained than its reputation.
All modern papers are loaded with OBA's.
What do you think of this idea? Instead of making silver prints by projection from an enlarger, suppose I print a large negative from an inkjet from my digitized 35mm negative, and then contact print on silver paper? It would be one generation down, so, theoretically worse quality than projection, but on the other hand, a whole lot can be done in photoshop to fix that file up before printing.
a valid hybrid method with reasonable quality up to 8x10.What do you think of this idea? Instead of making silver prints by projection from an enlarger, suppose I print a large negative from an inkjet from my digitized 35mm negative, and then contact print on silver paper? It would be one generation down, so, theoretically worse quality than projection, but on the other hand, a whole lot can be done in photoshop to fix that file up before printing.
I don't use the zone system. I don't develop my own film. My labs process normally with no pushing or pulling. I've notice that the best scans for me are on negatives that cover the full range from black to white. I then have the most latitude to do what I want in post processing.Ok folks, a followup. First, thanks to all who replied. I learned a lot. Now the question is about pushing. Keeping in minds the characteristic curves, what's happening when I push, and why is it necessary? For instance, if I am simply scanning and not wet printing, why can't I simply underexpose, and just do standard development? I'm thinking that if I simply underexpose, I lose shadow detail. (one, two or whatever in the way of stops,) and I am left with what's left on the upper, right side of the curve. If I am scanning, why would I need to extend development? And with wet printing, why?
Ok folks, a followup. First, thanks to all who replied. I learned a lot. Now the question is about pushing. Keeping in minds the characteristic curves, what's happening when I push, and why is it necessary? For instance, if I am simply scanning and not wet printing, why can't I simply underexpose, and just do standard development? I'm thinking that if I simply underexpose, I lose shadow detail. (one, two or whatever in the way of stops,) and I am left with what's left on the upper, right side of the curve. If I am scanning, why would I need to extend development? And with wet printing, why?
Extended processing and underexposure will affect your midtone scale and highlight behaviour in a different and more complex way than you think. The point is to steepen midtone gradient & boost highlight contrast so that the effect of shoving your neg down the scale via underexposure which can add up to a neg that needs a lot of work at a high contrast grade to get a good print. T-Max 400 is designed to have some degree of latitude for underexposure (1 stop), so you'll mostly just lose some shadow detail.
Extended processing and underexposure will affect your midtone scale and highlight behaviour in a different and more complex way than you think. The point is to steepen midtone gradient & boost highlight contrast so that the effect of shoving your neg down the scale via underexposure doesn't leave you with flat highlights and bland midtones, which can add up to a neg that needs a lot of work at a high contrast grade to get a good print. T-Max 400 is designed to have some degree of latitude for underexposure (1 stop), so you'll mostly just lose some shadow detail.
Yes."the effect of shoving your neg down the scale via underexposure doesn't leave you with flat highlights and bland midtones"
Would that be the same for scanning as well? Same issue?
Yes.
Push processing improves the rendition of under-exposed mid-tones and, to a certain extent, near shadows.
Your highlight rendition will not be as good though.
What happens is that during "push process" you overdevelop your film and therefore increase contrast/detail/brightness. However, if not being careful, it will wash away whatever the highlights you have on the negative, due to prolonged submersion in chemicals. Same submersion which "brightens up" the dark parts of our negative, will "brighten" our highlights too...Why is that? What's actually happening to the negative that causes that?
In order to get a better understanding of what happens, one should have a look at a set of characteristic curves for the same film and developer, for different development times:Why is that? What's actually happening to the negative that causes that?
Just an observation.....After all that I've learned in this thread, all the technical details, now when I read the dozens of "Tmax vs...." comparisons, or "HP-5 vs...", on photography blogs, I now understand them as mostly full of....uh, something. : )
What you should learn is that this is pixel peeping of film world and has nothing to do with photographyTmax, HP5 .. are all just great films and all very suitable for using as a medium in film photography. None of the films mentioned here make you bad photographer. None of the manufacturers guarantee better photographs when using their film
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