Difference between Tri-X Pan (320) and Tmax400

[StoneNYC]

Honestly? Please excuse me for being so forward in making this suggestion... Your skill, built by getting to know a film, will make 100 times more of a difference than the actual film you choose. Perhaps buy the cheapest of this lot, as these are all excellent, get just one developer, and stick with it for the next year (or two).

Not to worry, not forward, and good advice, but essentially that's what I'm doing, a single box will last me about a year, and I almost always developing in Rodinal for something like this. So I'm actually doing that, I'm just getting a little educated advice before I make the purchase.

 

[PKM-25]

Stone, I am not sure why you are paying $100 for 50 sheet 4x5 TMY2 because I just went to see how much it is at B&H and oddly enough it has actually dropped in price a few bucks to $84 a box, that is a lot cheaper than Acros100 by the way as it is $1.14 per sheet more...that is the cost of Delta 100 alone!

As for that tone curve, toe and shoulder stuff. I read about it, understood it awhile ago and then forgot about it not long after. I am not a technical photographer as much as an artistic one, I just want to get on with making strong photographs. I use Tmax 100 & 400, Efke IR820 in 4x5. I use the same in 120 ( 6x12 ) but also Acros 100 as well due to having a big stash of it when it was dirt cheap.

Just pick a couple of films and get on with making great photos, in the end when you are viewing a great photograph, you are not looking at toes and shoulders....well unless they are clearly part of your subject matter as is this case with yours...;-)

 

[StoneNYC]

Stone, I am not sure why you are paying $100 for 50 sheet 4x5 TMY2 because I just went to see how much it is at B&H and oddly enough it has actually dropped in price a few bucks to $84 a box, that is a lot cheaper than Acros100 by the way as it is $1.14 per sheet more...that is the cost of Delta 100 alone!

As for that tone curve, toe and shoulder stuff. I read about it, understood it awhile ago and then forgot about it not long after. I am not a technical photographer as much as an artistic one, I just want to get on with making strong photographs. I use Tmax 100 & 400, Efke IR820 in 4x5. I use the same in 120 ( 6x12 ) but also Acros 100 as well due to having a big stash of it when it was dirt cheap.

Just pick a couple of films and get on with making great photos, in the end when you are viewing a great photograph, you are not looking at toes and shoulders....well unless they are clearly part of your subject matter as is this case with yours...;-)

I'm glad you get the "aesthetic" view of photography and not this technical toe/curve stuff, means I'm not totally alone lol.

It's like $93 or $96 at freestyle, either way I rounded up.

I'll buy a box of Tmax400 when I'm close to being finished with the Acros100 and try it out for long exposures etc, but I love the look of Acros... We'll see but I've settled on tmax400, thanks everyone for the advice and guidance.

Thanks Dan for being on my level with "look" over technical info.

 

[PKM-25]

The tech side is definitely valuable, I am just not one of those who can spend too much time on it. It's kind of like tuning a guitar, by all means tune it, get it as close as you need to start jamming.....then start jamming.

 

[StoneNYC]

The tech side is definitely valuable, I am just not one of those who can spend too much time on it. It's kind of like tuning a guitar, by all means tune it, get it as close as you need to start jamming.....then start jamming.

+1

 

[eddie]

I have HP5+ but I think I'll save it for pushing to 1600 and want something else for the 400-800 range...

Why do you want something else? You already have a film which works in the 400-800 range. You're making your life more complicated, looking to work with more films than you need. Use HP5 (or whatever) for everything. Use Acros when it's reciprocity characteristics matter. There's a reason everyone recommends working with one film/one developer for a year. You need to master your materials. I think great photographers are usually film/developer monogamous. What makes their images great is their intimacy with their film and developer. Being so in tune with their materials, they can concentrate on what really matters...

 

[StoneNYC]

Why do you want something else? You already have a film which works in the 400-800 range. You're making your life more complicated, looking to work with more films than you need. Use HP5 (or whatever) for everything. Use Acros when it's reciprocity characteristics matter. There's a reason everyone recommends working with one film/one developer for a year. You need to master your materials. I think great photographers are usually film/developer monogamous. What makes their images great is their intimacy with their film and developer. Being so in tune with their materials, they can concentrate on what really matters...

I've already spent almost 3 years developing with all of these films, no I didn't just shoot one film for a solid year but still a few years using them all, I have a handle on HP5+ and I like it for some things but I'm not as happy with the look for others, if I could have my druthers I would shoot Neopan400 but that doesn't exist in sheet. (Or anything sadly anymore...

 

[eddie]

How many sheets of HP5 have you shot and developed?

 

[markbarendt]

Why do you want something else? You already have a film which works in the 400-800 range. You're making your life more complicated, looking to work with more films than you need. Use HP5 (or whatever) for everything. Use Acros when it's reciprocity characteristics matter. There's a reason everyone recommends working with one film/one developer for a year. You need to master your materials. I think great photographers are usually film/developer monogamous. What makes their images great is their intimacy with their film and developer. Being so in tune with their materials, they can concentrate on what really matters...

Eddie the same question was bouncing around my head.

So Stone, exactly what problem does HP5 have that makes switching important, especially to a film that you've admittedly struggled with?

What change to your prints do you hope to gain?

 

[StoneNYC]

Eddie the same question was bouncing around my head.

So Stone, exactly what problem does HP5 have that makes switching important, especially to a film that you've admittedly struggled with?

What change to your prints do you hope to gain?

It's really so many difference things that I don't want for certain projects that I can't describe, and on top of everything no one seems to listen when I say I ONLY want comparison info on TXP vs TMY-2... This seems to happen a lot here where I ask a simple question because after research and testing, I've decided to take an action but need additional information before proceeding and no one seems to actually answer the question they just tell me I should do something else.

It's not that I'm ungrateful for the knowledge you all have, it's just frustrating, like when you go to buy a car and you say I want a Prius but I can't decide between the model that plugs in (EV) and the fully gas hybrid model, and the salesmen says "oh why don't you just but a highlander hybrid SUV, have you tried them? I think that's the car for you" even though they have no real idea of what I want, they push what they want anyway.

Do you know how aggravating that is?

Anyway I just don't like the look that I'm getting for certain projects, i've already made my decision that I want to choose between these two films after looking at thousands of images on both films, Reading about the different characteristics and trying to understand the differences based on descriptions of other people, and I just wanted a few more pieces of information to make my decision, I will continue to use HP5+ for various projects, but I also want to have TMY-2 as an option for other projects.

I've now decided so the point is mute.

How many sheets of HP5 have you shot and developed?

Sheets and rolls combined? Maybe 30?

------------

I just would like to say again, that I appreciate all the input, all of the information, and the knowledgebase of all of you guys, you're really great and I also recognize that there are many times when I'm incorrect, and I certainly admitted in the past when I thought something was away it was and then it wasn't and I was wrong, and obviously I didn't go back and find the comment I made from Jan to go in some long-lost thread, and corrected it, but in new statements I would correct it and apologize. It may happen that in this case I am wrong, and I will learn from my mistakes, but I can't do that if I don't make them, so please is allow me to make the mistakes after getting the input that I was looking for, and let's see what happens. I'll post some images after I shot them

Thanks!

However if anybody actually has comparison images between the two TMY-2 & TXP, I am more than happy to entertain and enjoy viewing them to get a little more info on what they look like, you know they say a pictures worth 1000 words.

 

[markbarendt]

it's just frustrating, like when you go to buy a car and you say I want a Prius but I can't decide between the model that plugs in (EV) and the fully gas hybrid model, and the salesmen says "oh why don't you just but a highlander hybrid SUV, have you tried them? I think that's the car for you" even though they have no real idea of what I want, they push what they want anyway.

Do you know how aggravating that is?

Yeah, it's just frustrating, like when I go to sell a car and you say you want a Prius but you can't decide between the model that plugs in (EV) and the fully gas hybrid model, and so I purposefully say "oh why don't you just but a highlander hybrid SUV, have you tried them? I think that's the car for you". I do it to piss you off just enough to break the stalemate. I do this because you won't tell me the real reason (like your significant other wants the white one and you want the red one) so I have to push you a bit.

So, do you know how aggravating it is guessing why you are dumping HP5 for TMY is?

This forum is a two-way street Stone, you want us to share so you can learn, well we want you to share so we can learn.

Hint: if it's not a technical reason that's ok.

(And yes I used to sell cars, among other things.)

 

[Richard Man]

One thing I do notice on the analog forums (LFF, APUG...) is that since some of the people have been shooting tintype when they were new, sometimes they have the "you have no clue what 150 years of darkroom experience has taught me, don't cha?" attitude. Shrug and move on.

OTOH, 30 sheets/rolls of a film is nothing. I mean a dedicated 35mm photog can burn that in a week.... In NYC? I can burn 30 sheets of 4x5 easily in a week too.

Anyway, it really is not that complicated: TMY-2 for landscapes because it can give more shadow details, and TXP for portrait. If you are scanning (like I do), use TMY-2. TXP tend to look more muddy to me when scanning.

 

[eddie]

Stone- I think you're taking the comments all wrong. You seem to be asking for a film which will give you the results you want, when you should make the film give you what you want. This only comes with a lot of work. Far more than the 30 combined rolls/sheets you've shot. There are no shortcuts, or magic bullets.
Michael is correct. If you don't want to delve into reading curves, toes, shoulders, etc., the only way to get a grasp of your materials/techniques is to shoot, and develop, a lot of it. When I started in LF, I chose Tri-X. I did some serious testing (shooting gray sandpaper and using densitometer readings), and "real-world" testing in the field. Still, it probably took about 150-200 sheets before I felt like I had control over every shooting situation I found myself in.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Stone,

All this care, all this preparation, all this striving......and then you scan ?

Its like preparing and cooking the greatest meal ever....and then giving it to your dog....the dog will eat it....but never truly appreciate it !

Why don't you print ? then your photography will live on and you get to be really and truly creative twice over.

And yes...of course I have a vested interest !

Believe me you are missing so much...some would say the best bit.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[miha]

Simon, it's not all that easy to print 4x5 negatives, the enlargers are still expensive in LF and they are huge. I moved to LF but with the intention to contact print only - not something that a lot of people appreciate.

 

[StoneNYC]

Yeah, it's just frustrating, like when I go to sell a car and you say you want a Prius but you can't decide between the model that plugs in (EV) and the fully gas hybrid model, and so I purposefully say "oh why don't you just but a highlander hybrid SUV, have you tried them? I think that's the car for you". I do it to piss you off just enough to break the stalemate. I do this because you won't tell me the real reason (like your significant other wants the white one and you want the red one) so I have to push you a bit.

So, do you know how aggravating it is guessing why you are dumping HP5 for TMY is?

This forum is a two-way street Stone, you want us to share so you can learn, well we want you to share so we can learn.

Hint: if it's not a technical reason that's ok.

(And yes I used to sell cars, among other things.)

Ugh, I'm not dumping HP5+..... I'm simply using both!

Not every film is the best one for every purpose....

 

[StoneNYC]

Then why do you ask questions like this in the first place?

................

2) Find a truly world class photographer who has shot thousands of sheets of each, and ask some relevant questions.

Because you're a bunch if works class Photographers....

And my relevant question was what's the difference between the two aesthetically....

 

[markbarendt]

Ugh, I'm not dumping HP5+..... I'm simply using both!

Not every film is the best one for every purpose....

It is fine to use both, or all three.

What I am saying is that you haven't defined "the purpose" or why HP5 can't address that task. In an analogy, you are trying to pick a path without knowing where you want to end up.

 

[StoneNYC]

Dear Stone,

All this care, all this preparation, all this striving......and then you scan ?

Its like preparing and cooking the greatest meal ever....and then giving it to your dog....the dog will eat it....but never truly appreciate it !

Why don't you print ? then your photography will live on and you get to be really and truly creative twice over.

And yes...of course I have a vested interest !

Believe me you are missing so much...some would say the best bit.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Someday Simon, someday...

I have an enlarger but no place I'm allowed to set it up (per the others I live with) and there are no darkrooms near me, nor places to learn / schools who still have darkrooms, nor the time or money nor schedule per work to take a class far far away where there is an enlarger.

On another note, please don't listen to the others when someone said that I'm dumping HP5+, that is entirely not true and I don't know why this person insists that that's what I'm doing. I certainly will continue to buy and shoot HP5+ and use it for things I feel are right for it for my way of shooting, and I will use FP4+ even more for most of my shooting. And if PanF+ existed in sheet that would be shot even more than the others... (If it's different somehow but looks the same, call it PanFS for Sheet haha or PanF2...) and if Delta 400 existed in sheet, this whole conversation thread wouldn't even exist

Thanks for the support, don't worry eventually I'll have my own darkroom and use lots of Harmon/Ilford paper

My Fav Dev is DD-X by the way, but it's all a cost balance, and it doesn't come as a more concentrated form, and if it did it would need to last longer. Effectively I want DD-X in Rodinal style bottle/concentrations. I realized the potential that this could be a "shooting one's self in the foot" kind of situation for Ilford, but what I can say is that if in fact that did happen and such products were produced, I probably would end up dropping Rodinal almost altogether, there are many good Ilford chems (Ilfsol 3 for example is great and under appreciated), but for me the best is DD-X, so a more concentrated version with an open bottle shelf life of over a year, would be awesome and I would spend lots of money using that developer!

(Sorry, but it's not everyday I get to say what I want because this is actually my thread hehe, even if none of it will happen it's nice to be able to voice it to the man himself).

 

[StoneNYC]

It is fine to use both, or all three.

What I am saying is that you haven't defined "the purpose" or why HP5 can't address that task. In an analogy, you are trying to pick a path without knowing where you want to end up.

I know where I want to end up, it just doesn't matter and isn't relevant to the question IM ASKING...

There's another thread out there this talking about how Kodak keeps getting bashed and that it's bringing down the film world, I don't want to speak ill of HP5+ for some random idiot to come along who's new to film, see my thread or comment, about HP5+ not being right and end up buying Kodak just because ...

HP5+ shouldn't even be mentioned at all in this thread, it has NOTHING to do with the question, NOTHING, you just have your own agenda that you want to push on the conversation. I know I do it too sometimes so I'm not mad, but I want you to drop it... If you personally haven't compared TXP to TMY-2 and aren't going to give me examples of what you've observed or produced between ONLY these two films...then STFU (be silent). Please....

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Stone,

Whatever you use...from whichever manufacturer just enjoy your photography...all points noted.

And GET A DARKROOM....

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

 

[StoneNYC]

Dear Stone,

Whatever you use...from whichever manufacturer just enjoy your photography...all points noted.

And GET A DARKROOM....

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Haha thanks for listening, thanks for sharing, and yes Sir, I'm on it Sir

 

[Simon R Galley]

When you do your first sheets of paper are on me....!

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

 

[StoneNYC]

When you do your first sheets of paper are on me....!

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Wow! Well I'm honored! What an offer! When it happens I'll be in touch for sure

 

[removed account4]

hey stone

sorry to be a PITA ...

there are ways to make prints WITHOUT a darkroom, or an enlarger ..

you just need the sun .. or a bright light.

sure you can skanng the prints and make bigger ones that way, but you will
have something tangible to work from that isn't extrapolated from the skannger.

cyanotype chemistry is DIRT CHEAP, and it rinses inwater ... sun prints / lumen prints
with regular photopaper well, they are ephemeral so you just skanng them ...
or just contact print them with a bright light ..

john