Did the Travelwide ever get off the ground?

[RattyMouse]

Just curious, as that seemed like such a neat way to get into large format film. The endless delays really sucked the life out of that idea though. Havent heard much about the Travelwide in ages. Did they ever ship?

 

[vdonovan]

According to their latest comment (about a week ago) on Kickstarter, they are still trying to sort out problems with the helical. They say that they are committed to shipping the product, but they've given up guessing when that will be.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I soured on Kickstarter right before the Travelwide raising started having had 3-4 projects either suck so bad in the end or take FOREVER. Bummer but I am not surprised in the least.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

What I wanted it for was the 65mm pinhole. I'd be happy to take it with just that. And while I'm sure Ben and Justin have taken some very inappropriate and unfair flak in private for their failure to deliver, I'm getting tired of their whining about how rough this process has been on them - they consistently over-promised and under-delivered with things even as simple as posting updates about what's going on.

 

[RattyMouse]

What I wanted it for was the 65mm pinhole. I'd be happy to take it with just that. And while I'm sure Ben and Justin have taken some very inappropriate and unfair flak in private for their failure to deliver, I'm getting tired of their whining about how rough this process has been on them - they consistently over-promised and under-delivered with things even as simple as posting updates about what's going on.

I was just on a flight last week from Shanghai to Osaka. While waiting for that flight the time for take off came and went without any notice at all from the airline. People started to get very concerned as there werent even any airline employees at the gate. Finally, it was discovered that there was a gate change and people FURIOUSLY ran across the airport to the new gate. Panic was pretty high as most feared that the flight was missed, the time was now 15 mins past the departure time. Only after mass confusion and more than a bit of anger from most did we find out that the flight was delayed and that everyone was going to get on the plane.

In other words, good communication can prevent a lot of hardship. A pity that something so simple is often missed.

 

[heespharm]

I think it is ridiculous that they reached their goal may 2013 and two years later...


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[RattyMouse]

I think it is ridiculous that they reached their goal may 2013 and two years later...


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Wow...has it been that long? At what point do they throw in the towel and just admit they can't deliver?

I missed getting into this kickstarter by 5 days. I sure was mad back then.

 

[Pioneer]

It is still coming and I will love it when it arrives. It is still a terrific idea even though additional patience is required.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

It is still coming and I will love it when it arrives. It is still a terrific idea even though additional patience is required.

Have you participated in a Kickstarter before this?

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I'm getting tired of their whining about how rough this process has been on them - they consistently over-promised and under-delivered with things even as simple as posting updates about what's going on.

This has been way too common across many Kickstarter campaigns. One I was involved with failed miserably as the person way over-estimated what she could deliver on. Good news is she promised to pay everyone back as she only incurred costs as she delivered each item so had the money left to refund to those she did not deliver to. Bad news is that was almost two years ago now. She did some refunds, kept promising more were coming then nothing. I was out $75 in the end.

And while I know Kickstarter is not a promise of actually getting anything when this happens a few times or the item delivered is so late as to be no longer useful (i.e. an iPhone 4 case with a lens polarizer that was so late in delivery that it came out way after the iPhone 5 was released and most people had upgraded their iPhones by then) you get skeptical and lose interest in new Kickstarters. I got flak for showing skepticism even before the campaign closed that the Travelwide could deliver on their timing estimates. Had no idea how right I'd be.

 

[gone]

Kickstarter. Just another word for "we really don't know what we're doing, but give us some money anyway".

The whole concept smelled from the very beginning.

 

[vdonovan]

FYI, there have been comments in the past two days from Ben on the Kickstarter page:

"We had to special order 250 lbs of resin for our final batch of helicals, and it's been a painful wait. I paid $450 for our shop to rush the last sample run, so we can confirm a fit as soon as humanly possible. I'm still waiting to hear when our sample run has been scheduled, but I'll let you guys know when I have a date."

and

"I heard back from our injection shop, and they're scheduled to run some parts for us on Monday. Stay tuned!"

While I'm all for the mad-scientist persistence of these guys, it's puzzling how bad they are at communication which, as an earlier poster pointed out, is half the battle. The quotes above were posted as COMMENTS on the Kickstarter page, not UPDATES. This means that only people who actually look at the Kickstarter page will be able to read them. If they had posted them as updates they would have been emailed to all their supporters.

A counterexample is the New55 project. They are prolific on Facebook and their blog, as well as posting monthly Kickstarter updates right on schedule. Though they are a few months behind schedule (and also running low on dough), their supporters are more excited and positive than ever.

 

[pschwart]

A counterexample is the New55 project. They are prolific on Facebook and their blog, as well as posting monthly Kickstarter updates right on schedule. Though they are a few months behind schedule (and also running low on dough), their supporters are more excited and positive than ever.

Updates are good, product is much better. I pledged, and I certainly hope they succeed, but I have given up hope of seeing delivery this year. Maybe they need to try conventional financing -- asking potential customers to bear the risk to the tune of hundreds of dollars each is not really a good model.

 

[ambaker]

Updates are good, product is much better. I pledged, and I certainly hope they succeed, but I have given up hope of seeing delivery this year. Maybe they need to try conventional financing -- asking potential customers to bear the risk to the tune of hundreds of dollars each is not really a good model.

I suspect, that for many of these projects, conventional financing is not obtainable. If dedicated photographers argue that a new 4x5 camera is madness, what would a banker make of it?


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[summicron1]

FYI, there have been comments in the past two days from Ben on the Kickstarter page:

"We had to special order 250 lbs of resin for our final batch of helicals, and it's been a painful wait. I paid $450 for our shop to rush the last sample run, so we can confirm a fit as soon as humanly possible. I'm still waiting to hear when our sample run has been scheduled, but I'll let you guys know when I have a date."

and

"I heard back from our injection shop, and they're scheduled to run some parts for us on Monday. Stay tuned!"

While I'm all for the mad-scientist persistence of these guys, it's puzzling how bad they are at communication which, as an earlier poster pointed out, is half the battle. The quotes above were posted as COMMENTS on the Kickstarter page, not UPDATES. This means that only people who actually look at the Kickstarter page will be able to read them. If they had posted them as updates they would have been emailed to all their supporters.

A counterexample is the New55 project. They are prolific on Facebook and their blog, as well as posting monthly Kickstarter updates right on schedule. Though they are a few months behind schedule (and also running low on dough), their supporters are more excited and positive than ever.

At least the guy is talking. The New York Times Magazine this coming sunday has a big article on Kickstarter in general, centered around some folks whose great idea for an espresso machine went south in a huge way and ended up reluctant to give out their addresses.

I see kickstarter as a gamble. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, especially for developing gadgets. Artwork might be another matter ... you know the artist will do something, maybe.

But, still, a gamble. Here's the Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-the-rage-of-the-jilted-crowdfunder.html

Still want to get into 4 by 5 cheap? Pick up an old speed graphic. Works for me, and vastly cooler anyway.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

This has been way too common across many Kickstarter campaigns. One I was involved with failed miserably as the person way over-estimated what she could deliver on. Good news is she promised to pay everyone back as she only incurred costs as she delivered each item so had the money left to refund to those she did not deliver to. Bad news is that was almost two years ago now. She did some refunds, kept promising more were coming then nothing. I was out $75 in the end.

And while I know Kickstarter is not a promise of actually getting anything when this happens a few times or the item delivered is so late as to be no longer useful (i.e. an iPhone 4 case with a lens polarizer that was so late in delivery that it came out way after the iPhone 5 was released and most people had upgraded their iPhones by then) you get skeptical and lose interest in new Kickstarters. I got flak for showing skepticism even before the campaign closed that the Travelwide could deliver on their timing estimates. Had no idea how right I'd be.

Don't DARE mention this over at LFF. Any response other than fervent reverence and unwavering faithful patience is shouted down as being rude and ungrateful, and a total misunderstanding of Kickstarter. I dunno, but everything else I've backed on Kickstarter has delivered, and for the most part on time. Kickstarter is not VC funding. We're not angel investors who go into this thinking "If I give them $2M, in two years we'll start making money". I plonk down $100, I anticipate that in the time frame specified in the funding synopsis that I will receive a product. It doesn't really matter how much or how little I paid - my entitlement to be pissed off is equal after a two year delay.

 

[Lee Rust]

Your participation in any Kickstarter project is as an investor, not a consumer. Yes, you are an 'angel', just a very tiny one. The eventual receipt of the product or service is a reward for your good faith in the project, not the fulfillment of a purchase. It's a gamble, just like the stock market or a night at the casino. You win some, you lose some.

Personally, I'm in on both Travelwide and New55. The former is a typical first-time project where the guys with the good idea encountered a steep reality curve. The latter is professionally managed by experienced entrepreneurs and technicians who accounted for the inevitable delays and failures as a part of their original plan. We'll hope for the best and see how things turn out.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Your participation in any Kickstarter project is as an investor, not a consumer. Yes, you are an 'angel', just a very tiny one. The eventual receipt of the product or service is a reward for your good faith in the project, not the fulfillment of a purchase. It's a gamble, just like the stock market or a night at the casino. You win some, you lose some.

Personally, I'm in on both Travelwide and New55. The former is a typical first-time project where the guys with the good idea encountered a steep reality curve. The latter is professionally managed by experienced entrepreneurs and technicians who accounted for the inevitable delays and failures as a part of their original plan. We'll hope for the best and see how things turn out.

Actually, we're NOT investors on Kickstarter. An investor earns a return on their investment and owns a share of the profits of the company until which time they sell their share. Kickstarter themselves make that distinction very clear - Kickstarter is more like a microloan from a bank - the microloan has a time frame and an expected payoff (in the Kickstarter project, the final product).

 

[Lee Rust]

Actually, we're NOT investors on Kickstarter. An investor earns a return on their investment and owns a share of the profits of the company until which time they sell their share. Kickstarter themselves make that distinction very clear - Kickstarter is more like a microloan from a bank - the microloan has a time frame and an expected payoff (in the Kickstarter project, the final product).

In the technical and legal sense, you're absolutely correct. Contributors have no ownership stake in any Kickstarter business venture to which they give money. The 'investment' is mostly emotional, as can be judged by the angst that results from missed production deadlines. I learned from the NYT article that Kickstarter has recently changed their guidelines to let failed projects off the fulfillment hook if they are judged to have made a sincere effort but come up empty-handed.

 

[480sparky]

Kickstarter. Just another word for "we know perfectly well the Shark Tank would send us packing".

FIFY.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Kickstarter. Just another word for "we know perfectly well the Shark Tank would send us packing".

The problem arises, of course, when there are no photographer sharks in the tank to begin with...

Ken

 

[Pioneer]

I think that Kickstarter has given several projects life that would have never have happened otherwise.

Personally I have invested in several Kickstarters, only one of which has produced anything yet, the CL81 8x10 developing reel from CatLabs. Of the rest I hope they turn out.

I think some people have invested in Kickstarter projects without fulling understanding the risks involved in developing and launching a new product. I think they have this idea that, because they provided some money, they are guaranteed something in return. I do believe the entire idea is neat and I like the idea of being in on the ground floor of something, but to be truthful I'll be happy if one in five come out with anything really worthwhile.

I do believe that some of these projects have been a bit ambitious for Kickstarter and should have pursued startup financing instead. Projects like NewFilm are too complex and will take far too long to produce a product to be viable results. All they are doing is using Kickstarter funds to try and prove a concept. Even if they prove the concept possible there may still be no money to support a business that has already failed once.

But to dismiss the Kickstarter process altogether is completely wrong. If you don't like it then don't toss any money in the pot.

You can still come to Nevada and pay my taxes by throwing some money at the Roulette Wheel. It is probably more fun anyway.

 

[pdeeh]

Personally, I'm in on both Travelwide and New55. The former is a typical first-time project where the guys with the good idea encountered a steep reality curve.

The Travelwide is NOT ben & justin's first brush with the reality of manufacture, as they already did a Kickstarter project to make a pinhole body cap ("Pinwide") for the digital micro-4/3 mount. Although a much simpler project than the Travelwide, it was also an injection-moulding make plus custom laser drilling for the pinholes. I was one of the first "investors" in that, which is how I know

That too ran rather over the projected timeline, but I would have thought they should have learned something from it - they were pretty good about making sure we all had updates in that case. I'm not in on the Travelwide as it started at the wrong time for my finances, but I have watched the progress of it in threads here and on KS, and sometimes leapt in to defend them as being "for real".

I still don't doubt they'll deliver, but I'm not surprised that there is a chorus of complaint.

 

[Richard Man]

If someone itching to start on 4x5, get a speed/crown graphic or even a field camera like I did (Chamonix F1) and start shooting the next day. If the TW does come out, you can sell your 4x5 for pretty much the same price you get it for so there's no meaningful loss per se. I have shot 500 sheets in 3 years. Don't hesitate and wait. Spend a little money now and start photographing.

 

[Lee Rust]

I think it's important to encourage new manufacture of practical film photo equipment like the Travelwide, no matter how limited the demand, how hard it is to accomplish, and how many choices there already are in the second-hand marketplace. How about lenses and shutters? We can't recycle the old ones forever.