Did the Travelwide ever get off the ground?

[ciniframe]

I WANT to feel that way, but after two-plus years of delays, double-speak and obfuscation, I'm not getting excited, and I'll be flat-out knocked on my ass if I have the thing in hand in time for my fall vacation. Part of me is very pissed off that the major cause of the delay is a part I wasn't looking for anyway - I wanted the 65mm pinhole, so if in fact the pinholes were ready to go over a year ago, I think they should have shipped those when they were ready. And the latest excuse/comment about the shipping - they're trying to figure out the logistics of shipping, NOW???? You've had two damn years to figure that out. All that should have been figured out a long time ago so as soon as the cameras were assembled they should have been in the mail.

It is very hard to get ANY actual date commitment out of Ben & Co. In the general comments section on their KS page I asked him on July 3rd if shipping was going to be delayed until after the pick-up party, the same day he said "No", that there would be no delay in shipping, now he says cameras will go out after the pick-up party. He still will not commit to a date for shipping to begin. What does after the pick-up party mean? Does it mean one day, one week, or one month? No one knows.

Ben's dedication to the project is laudable, especially with a considerable out of pocket cost to him. But ongoing communication and answering reasonable questions from backers on a timely basis is just awful. It makes him appear furtive and secretive, with something to hide and that is too bad for he seems like a decent fellow otherwise.

Full, frequent and honest communication is the life blood of any KS campaign. It is too bad so many creators of these projects just don't get that. Even if a creator does not have a specific answer to a question, then let the backer know that, don't just give them the silent treatment.

 

[Pioneer]

I am sorry that you all seem to feel so bad...

...but not enough to quit bouncing!

This is a slightly late/early Xmas Present that I will truly enjoy using.

Have a great weekend!

 

[pdeeh]

I'm just ratty that I didn't have the money to join in the ks at the time or buy the lens. Sigh.
Actually come to think of it I haven't got the money now either.

 

[ciniframe]

I'm just ratty that I didn't have the money to join in the ks at the time or buy the lens. Sigh.
Actually come to think of it I haven't got the money now either.

Ben has said he would have to run 500 units to have a second batch be economically viable. I'm sure they want to make more cameras but I have a notion they would have to collect deposits on 500 or more cameras cameras before they would order an second run. There is also the chance that someone in the UK who is getting a camera has moved on to other things and will sell you theirs.

 

[pdeeh]

all true, of course, but there still remains the cash problem

 

[ciniframe]

all true, of course, but there still remains the cash problem

Ah yes, moola, bread, coin, cabbage, lucre, scratch,
I think that affects quite a few of us. Since I backed this project the missus and I have retired to a fixed income. I was able to come by a 90 f6.8 Angulon in poor optical condition (appears to be some element separation) for a modest sum, and will only be shooting photo paper in the film holders. Fortunately I have an old but ample supply of photo paper in the fridge and unopened bottles of Ilford concentrate ready to mix. If I had to do this now I would not be able to afford it. Do you want to shoot with a lens, or only pin hole? I made a very nice ultra light 90mm 4X5 out of hobby plywood and foam core for a materials cost of only about $10, not including film holders of course. But used 4X5 film holders are plentiful and not too expensive and you usually only need about 3 of them.

 

[pdeeh]

We're in danger of peeling away into offtopic land, but I'll just say that I've built several cameras, some lensed (including focusing), some not, in MF & LF formats. None were really usable in the field in the way the travelwide is likely to be, but I don't doubt someone with better craft skills, better tools and better materials than I could make something nearly as neat as Ben & Justin's product.

 

[RattyMouse]

I'm just ratty that I didn't have the money to join in the ks at the time or buy the lens. Sigh.
Actually come to think of it I haven't got the money now either.

 

[ciniframe]

We're in danger of peeling away into offtopic land, but I'll just say that I've built several cameras, some lensed (including focusing), some not, in MF & LF formats. None were really usable in the field in the way the travelwide is likely to be, but I don't doubt someone with better craft skills, better tools and better materials than I could make something nearly as neat as Ben & Justin's product.

I to have made a 4X5 box camera using an old Kodak 130mm f7.7 lens with front element scale focusing to 6 ft. but, built out of plywood it was a monster and weighed 4X what the Travelwide weighs.

Really though, ongoing cost of operating a 4X5 quickly exceed the initial outlay for almost any camera. Don't know what Ilford 4X5 B&W costs in the UK but stateside it is $1.25 per sheet for FP4, Fomapan 100 is available for about $1 per sheet. That is exclusive of any processing expense. That is why I shoot paper. Buying older, outdated B&W paper (sometimes I've got stuff free) or even at new paper prices my cost per sheet never exceeds 25 cents and processing can be carried out under safelight and the cost for chemicals is trivial. Sure, I'm dealing with ISO 6~12 so no hand held shooting and you have to deal with the excessive contrast of paper negatives but it is still cheap fun and I'm all for that.

 

[ciniframe]

They are now assembling cameras and putting them in boxes. Hopefully this means they will be shipping out cameras soon.

 

[Dr Croubie]

They are now assembling cameras and putting them in boxes. Hopefully this means they will be shipping out cameras soon.

Yeah, they mentioned shipping them out in batches of ~250, which means that there'll be 5-6 batches (1024 backers but a lot got 2, like me). Including shipping time to the wrong side of the world and I doubt I'll have it in my hands before October, but even November would be nice, just in time for Summer.

 

[Gadfly_71]

Justin Lundquist (one half of the team) has posted some images of the assembly "line" on his Instagram feed: https://instagram.com/justinlundquist/

 

[ciniframe]

There is some more chatter over at the TravelWide Kickstarter page. It's in the main comments section. Ben says there will be an update in a few days. This update is supposed to contain information about when they will start shipping cameras out to backers. I know, there have been many false alarms so will just have to do what I've done all along, wait.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

From the comments section (so they are only figuring out NOW, after all this time, only now, how to actually get them shipped??):

• [h=3]Creator Dead Link Removed Dead Link Removed[/h]Albert, I wish it was that simple! That's how we shipped our last Kickstarter. However, our post office was on the verge of refusing some of our batches, and we had to manually fill out every international customs form.
  It turns out you can't just show up at your local post office with a delivery truck full of pallets of cameras. And international shipping complicates things even more. But we're working with the right people, and I think we have it figured out. Stay tuned!
  
  
  
• Dead Link Removed
  [h=3]Albert Taylor Dead Link Removed[/h]Usually the procedure is drop off the boxes at the post office or arrange to have them picked up and they'll take care of the rest as far as getting them delivered.
  At least that's how I've always done it.
  
  
  
• Dead Link Removed
  [h=3]Creator Dead Link Removed Dead Link Removed[/h]Charles, I'm glad you're still excited about the camera—we are too! We'll have another update for everyone soon—hopefully with some concrete shipping information. We have a large chunk of the Kickstarter pledges assembled and packed, and we're working with USPS to get them out there. Stay tuned!
  
  

 

[ciniframe]

I think that what they envisioned when they first launched this campaign has been totally blown out of the water. They got so engrossed in solving engineering problems that some other things became "cross that bridge when we get there" details. I have a notion this is a much, MUCH, better camera that first specified, if for no other reason it is now convertible between the 65 and 90 configurations.

I do wonder sometime how many backers dropped out and wanted their pledge refunded. Can't imagine there are that many. I think most of us wanted this thing more than our modest investment. In the almost two year delay since the first delivery estimate my circumstances have changed a lot. Now on a fixed income so the photography hobby on the back burner while more important things are taken care of. That said I did back that Galaxy fast paper project. With the way these KS projects go I won't expect to see any results until next June. If it does not fall through altogether that is.

 

[Gadfly_71]

so they are only figuring out NOW, after all this time, only now, how to actually get them shipped??

To be fair, until they have a few units assembled and boxed it's really difficult to assess the situation accurately. Shipping weight, package size, etc. are things that you really can't guess at and without accurate data you really won't know the cost or the best logistical arrangements. Adding to the issue, production delays mean that any quotes they may have had early on are likely inaccurate now. Forms for customs/international shipping often have a finite time period for which they are good and once that period expires they have to be re-done. I'm not at all surprised that there are logistics issues that had to wait until the cameras were complete.

 

[pdeeh]

To be fair, until they have a few units assembled and boxed it's really difficult to assess the situation accurately. Shipping weight, package size, etc. are things that you really can't guess at and without accurate data you really won't know the cost or the best logistical arrangements. Adding to the issue, production delays mean that any quotes they may have had early on are likely inaccurate now. Forms for customs/international shipping often have a finite time period for which they are good and once that period expires they have to be re-done. I'm not at all surprised that there are logistics issues that had to wait until the cameras were complete.

I have no horse in this race (I'm not an "investor") but I couldn't disagree more.

It's not as though all the cameras turned up and suddenly they found they were all 10x8s and made of metal is it?

They know exactly what dimensions and weight their product has, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to make it. The camera won't have suddenly changed in volume or weight just because they've had delays. and they could have spent a profitable hour on the USPS/DHL/FedEx/whoever websites finding out about international shipping any time in the last 3 months, as well as making initial enquiries with their local Post Office, and they would certainly have known the maximum size and weight they would have to cater for.

I think they're good guys, and I'm not cynical about them or their product, but this really is sloppy, and there really are no significant excuses that can be made for this latest "issue" ...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I have no horse in this race (I'm not an "investor") but I couldn't disagree more.

It's not as though all the cameras turned up and suddenly they found they were all 10x8s and made of metal is it?

They know exactly what dimensions and weight their product has, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to make it. The camera won't have suddenly changed in volume or weight just because they've had delays. and they could have spent a profitable hour on the USPS/DHL/FedEx/whoever finding out about international shipping any time in the last 3 months, as well as making initial enquiries with their local Post Office, and they would certainly have known the maximum size and weight they would have to cater for.

I think they're good guys, and I'm not cynical about them or their product, but this really is sloppy of them, and there really are no significant excuses that can be made for this latest "issue" ...

I agree. They had enough time (TWO AND A HALF YEARS!!!!) to figure out the packaging and shipping issues so that the day these things came off the assembly line they could have been boxing and shipping them.

 

[Dr Croubie]

And even if they didn't have the 'exact' box size and 'exact' weight, they should have had it narrowed down to within 1-2" and 100g or so. But even besides that, they could have just talked to someone at the post office along the lines of, "hey, we want to ship 1000 boxes all over the world in a few months, what do we need to do, what forms do we need to fill in? Do you want 1000 boxes with 1000 customs forms, or can we give them to you as a pallet or two and let you guys deal with it?"

Big places like mapple and dell have this sort of thing sorted, they have entire departments dedicated to those problems. I worked for a place that rented warehouse space adjacent to every airport in Australia, stuff from OS direct to customer went straight through there, stuff from the local production place I was at went in one or two trucks every day to the airport, all broken down, sorted, and shipped from there. In another job I had to oversee a pallet of goods going out from our warehouse to the distribution centre once or twice a week (was meant to be supervisor, but half the time I helped build and wrap it, and I did all the forms by hand every time).

So if I were doing a kickstarter, and it got this big, I'd be thinking hard about logistics earlier on. But Wanderlust are only two guys, unfortunately. And maybe neither of them have experienced things like I have, maybe they've never actually worked anywhere near the logistics side of a company so they never even envisaged that it would be a problem. And they're trying to do a big-company style shipment starting from scratch. So I'm cutting them some slack in that sense, even though my perspective and experience is still thinking, "you guys should have thought more about this".

Still, it's not like they're going to quit at this stage, so I'm happy that i'll get it at least by December this year, just in time for my Summer road trips.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Dr C, read my post just above where it quotes these guys. They did a Kickstarter BEFORE this and he references it. Pure laziness and bad planning. No excuse.

 

[ciniframe]

Their other product was about the size of a body cap for micro 4:3 and could be sent in a 5X7 padded envelope, real cheap. This item is a bit larger and you pay more for size than weight. He also ran out of KS money a long time ago so natch, he is trying to save some money. It all comes straight out of his pocket now.

 

[Nige]

tracking numbers are being received

 

[Dr Croubie]

Just got the email:

Best Kickstarter update ever: Your Travelwide shipped!

[TABLE="class: cf hX"]
[TR="class: hR"]
[TD="class: hU hM, bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]Dear backer #432,
Thank you so, so much for backing the Travelwide on Kickstarter, and for your patience during this long wait! We're very sorry for the delay, but believe it or not, your camera was shipped on 10/2/2015! You can track your package at any time using the link below.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Good to hear. What was the original estimated delivery date?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Good to hear. What was the original estimated delivery date?

Sometime in the previous millennium, it feels like. I'm #197 in order of purchase and I still haven't gotten an email that it has shipped or that they are holding it for me per request (I'm going away shortly and don't want it left sitting on my front steps!).