Diafine recipe

[BetterSense]

Does anyone know what Diafine is actually made of?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

You could try a search for 'home made Diafine' here on APUG. I imagine the official formula is proprietary.

Tom

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

or in the Darkroom Cookbook.

 

[jim appleyard]

Yes, there is a recipe for homebrew Diafine in TDC. However, I don't know how accurate it is. I've brewed it up twice and got very underdevved negs. You may have better luck.

The real diafine is a good bargain, tho'. The stuff lasts and lasts. I often wonder how BKA makes money on it.

 

[BetterSense]

Indeed, I probably have several lifetime's worth of it. I was just wondering, in case it becomes unavailable; it would be lame to completely lose it.

 

[RobertV]

Even in Europe it's very populair. The stuff last very long 1 1/2 - 2 years and you can do a lot of films with 1 Quart/950ml.

 

[davekarp]

I looked at the MSDS sheets once. The home brew version floating around used a different activator: borax. I think that the MSDS said that the B bath contained Sodium Carbonate (not sure exactly, it has been a long time).

 

[nworth]

Diafine is a proprietary developer, and the actual formula is a trade secret, as far as I know. There have been several formulas published for "Diafine-like" developers. Here is one I found somewhere:

Diafine-type film developer

Solution A
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 35 g
Hydroquinone 6 g
Phenidone 200 mg
Sodium bisulfite 6 g
WTM 1 l

Solution B
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 65 g
Borax 20 g
WTM 1 l

Soak film in Solution A for 3 minutes and then transfer to Solution B without rise for 3 minutes. Do not use presoak or acid stop bath. This is said to give one stop speed increase over D-76 with similar grain and sharpness. It can be used at any temperature between 20C and 28C without adjustment

 

[jim appleyard]

This is the same formula in TDC and the one I have tried w/o success. Somewhere I read that 20g of Sod. Metaborate can be subbed for the borax; that should make a difference, but I have not tried it as the real Diafine lasts so darn long.

I don't have the MSDS, but the label on diafine only lists sod. sulfite and HQ.

 

[dancqu]

There have been several formulas published for "Diafine-like"
developers. Here is one I found somewhere:

Diafine-type film developer

Solution A
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 35 g
Hydroquinone 6 g
Phenidone 200 mg
Sodium bisulfite 6 g
WTM 1 l

Solution B
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 65 g
Borax 20 g
WTM 1 l

That formula was arrived at by R. W. Anderson.
He does mention the use of borax or metaborate.

That formula and a few other home brew substitutes
were published in Patrick Dignan's Classic B&W
Formulas. Other formulas include Microdol-X,
Neofin Blue, and Acufine. Dan

 

[CraigG4C]

DD-78 to the rescue!

Back in the mid-'70s when I had the time, youth, and enthusiasm for this kind of messing around, I did a lot with Divided D-76 and had very good luck with it, especially when I needed very long-scale negs. But the chemicals have to be mixed in a specific order; find a good article on the subject before just dumping them into a jug.

An advantage of DD-76 is that (like Diafine) you can use a big tank and develop everything -- PX, TX, FX, FP4, HP5, ... -- together, since the emulsion thickness and thus the amount of developer absorbed varies with the speed. If you have a carload of different films to develop at once, this is handy, as long as they have all been exposed at around their nominal ASA.

Another trick is to use normal D-76 1:1 for the first bath without agitation (other than the bubble knock) for about half the normal time, then put the film in the B bath shown with the recommended agitation. Lose about half a stop but lots of compensation effect.

I used Diafine at one point, was not impressed. However, with TX or HP5 it produced between a half and a full stop speed increase (probably from the phenidone) without excessive grain if you use the Diafine A and the DD-76 B. Save the Diafine B for cleaning your oven.

Damn, this makes me wish I still had the time ...

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Sodium metaborate is not borax and its solution has a much higher pH than that of borax. I think that this is your problem. The recipe that I is have for Bath B is 30 g of sodium sulfite and 20 g of sodium metaborate. Bath A is the same as given here. You will have to get the metaborate from a chemicals supply site such as www.techcheminc.com. You can also use sodium carbonate as the alkali in B, I would suggest trying 10 g as a starting point.

 

[ags2mikon]

The best place to start is the MSDS sheets. Look for MSDS sheets from the 1980's. That is what I did. You will still have to fuss with some of the ratios, but you will find a soup that is tailored to you. Also I think that the formula has changed over time. I think that they removed the phosphates. It really is worth the time and effort.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The use of borax (sodium tetraborate) in the Darkroom Cookbook probably is an error. The first edition of the book was full of errors most of which were corrected by the second edition. For a divided developer the activator solution (Bath B) must be rather alkaline and certainly borax is not. The MSDS for the product says that part B contains sodium carbonate 20 - 30%.

 

[idamia]

I would recommend to use Barry Thornton's two bath (BTTB) developer.
His published formula works perfectly and gives results similar to diafine.
If you want to stay closer to diafine, use the published bath A and use 12g per liter sodium metaborate as bath B.

 

[ags2mikon]

I have the 1986 MSDS sheets on this product. Let me know if any wants them.

 

[J N]

As suggested, the "Diafine" recipe in TDC works fine with sodium metaborate in place of borax. I thought the borax was sketchy but it might also be fine.

I now have a couple bottles of "Imfine" while I wait for gallon packets of Diafine.5 months so far, think it might be about to happen now though. I've processed maybe 300 rolls in Diafine over the years.

 

[gkardmw]

I am one of those that have tried The Darkroom Cookbook recipe for Part B and have come up with very thin negatives. I am a bit confused about how much sodium sulfite and either sodium metaborate or sodium carbonate to go with that. For instance, I see 65 g for the sodium sulfite in the original recipe and a suggestion to use 30 g. Which is it? Anyone use the carbonate recipe? How much did you add?

Thanks

Dave

 

[Alan Johnson]

There are two threads reporting work in progress as at Jun 2021, one by relistan:
Advice on my Two Bath Developer | Photrio.com Photography Forums
and one by me:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/developer-for-aviphot-pan-200.182434/
I use 35g/L sodium sufite together with 30g/L sodium carbonate (anh) in part B.
Both threads indicate some development in the carry over from part A.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I am one of those that have tried The Darkroom Cookbook recipe for Part B and have come up with very thin negatives. I am a bit confused about how much sodium sulfite and either sodium metaborate or sodium carbonate to go with that. For instance, I see 65 g for the sodium sulfite in the original recipe and a suggestion to use 30 g. Which is it? Anyone use the carbonate recipe? How much did you add?

No idea about Part B of the Diafine substitute, but I've used 80ml/liter of this as a single use substitute for Metaborate in Part B of Thornton's Two Bath developer and got good results. As it is a single use second bath, there's no worry of carryover accumulation. It can be prepared from easily available chemicals and is also very economical. It should be interesting to try it with the Diafine substitute, of course with a small test strip first.

 

[jim appleyard]

I am one of those that have tried The Darkroom Cookbook recipe for Part B and have come up with very thin negatives. I am a bit confused about how much sodium sulfite and either sodium metaborate or sodium carbonate to go with that. For instance, I see 65 g for the sodium sulfite in the original recipe and a suggestion to use 30 g. Which is it? Anyone use the carbonate recipe? How much did you add?

Thanks

Dave

I was also getting thin negs with the published version. I was experimenting with different amount of sod. carbonate and my memory says 30/g as a good start, but I am now retired and traveling and don't have my notes accessible. My sulfite was the same as the published version. Experiment and see what works for your needs.

 

[J N]

My "Imfine" with 20g metaborate rather than Borax worked fine and gave me typical Diafine negatives.

Might post some examples somewhere later. I'll probably shoot more B/W tomorrow actually.

I can also check pH of my solutions etc.

By the way "Imfine" and Diafine work well on P3200 which is awesome due to Neopan 1600 being no longer a thing. The grain can be really crisp but if you are scanning you can tone it down a little in post-processing.

Honestly if I had to have use only two B/W films ever they would be EIR and Neopan 1600 and, well, see how that went. (#3 Tech Pan. I might still have a bulk loader full of it somewhere. I developed it in HC-110.)

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

What's Imfine?

 

[relistan]

What's Imfine?

That appears to be this person's name for the Dark Room Cookbook's version of Diafine with a metaborate substitution.

 

[relistan]

If you are looking for a two bath that works well and has a lot of similar properties to Diafine, my first two bath that @Alan Johnson mentioned earlier works quite well. It's written up in more detail and with examples here: https://imager.ie/a-phenidone-hydroquinone-two-bath-developer/ . It's higher contrast and sharper than diafine, but a bit grainier. It's speed increasing on several films but I have not measured by how much.