Developing Fuji Acros in Diafine - seeking feedback / tips and tricks

ITKI · Jan 5, 2018

Hello everybody!

I have started using Fuji Acros 100 in 35mm, and I'm developing it in Jobo tanks using Diafine.

Using the 'official' method as described here with the Acros-specific 22°C and 5:5 with gentle agitation every minute.
Solutions and Fixer are pretty perfectly at 22°C though I have a hard time to keep my tap water at a constant temp;
it's not far off for the 30s rinse between A and B but it does drop during the final wash - can't imagine this being a big problem though (may be wrong).

My major issue is that the negs come out very contrasty, and I'm not sure why that is.
Another thing is that they scan a bit weird, with blocked highlights (using Quato Intelli Scan 5000 with SilverFast Ai).
Posting some examples below. All straight out the scanner

I appreciate any help, tips, tricks, suggestions!

Thank you all and have a nice day!

TK

bvy · Jan 5, 2018

Those are contrasty. Diafine is a compensating developer and usually calls for some underexposure. It wouldn't be my first choice for Acros or any emulsion <ISO400. How are you exposing these, and what are you trying to accomplish with Diafine versus a more traditional developer?

I don't think your temperatures are an issue. The 5:5 seems long (isn't 3:3 prescribed for most things?) but it shouldn't have this kind of effect on contrast. I can't access your link for whatever reason.

ITKI · Jan 6, 2018

Hi @bvy - thanks for your feedback!

Yea I'm underexposing a bit - that is I shoot the Acros 100 at 200.
I'm not trying to accomplish something extraordinary with Diafine versus a more traditional developer, just at the moment budget as well as space is limited,
so I chose Diafine as i can conveniently develop various emulsions with it, and also I was under the impression it might suit the smooth character of Acros.
3:3 is indeed described for basically all film but Acros and T-Max by the manufacturer - for the latter 4:4.5 is recommended, and 5:5 for Acros 100.
I can't seem to edit my original post, but here's the corrected link to the manufacturer's PDF: https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/acufine_tech/acufine.pdf

Cheers.

bvy · Jan 6, 2018

Sure. I like Diafine too for those same reasons. I did notice the longer times for T-Max 100 and thought that same strategy might carry over to Acros since they're similar emulsions. They also show slightly higher temps for T-Max 100, but this is where the Diafine instructions famously contradict themselves. They publish in one place that you can develop anywhere in the range 70F to 85F, but here they're giving you precise temperature instructions. I do know from experience that Diafine at 85F does not act the same as Diafine at 70F, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect any difference between 68F and 71.6F [sic].

Also, if you notice, those time/temp values are for T-Max 100 slightly overexposed (at ISO 80). Looking again at your images, there's little to no shadow detail but your highlights are well done -- hence the extreme contrast. My recommendation: Try shooting at box speed or slightly under.

voceumana · Jan 6, 2018

If you are using a Jobo Processor with continuous agitation, that could be your problem. Diafine's suggested processing indicates gentle intermittent agitation.

The instructions indicate that excess agitation will cause loss of shadow detail. Most two bath formulas are compensating, meaning the highlights run out of developer while the shadows develop more fully. In order to achieve this, agitation must not be excessive, or your highlights develop fully and shadows suffer from underdevelopment. Exactly what you seem to have.

bvy · Jan 6, 2018

voceumana said:
If you are using a Jobo Processor with continuous agitation, that could be your problem. Diafine's suggested processing indicates gentle intermittent agitation.

I think she's just using the tanks. She says she's doing gentle agitation every minute consistent with the instructions. That said, constant agitation in the first bath doesn't really hurt, and is a common strategy.

ITKI · Jan 7, 2018

bvy said:
Diafine instructions famously contradict themselves. They publish in one place that you can develop anywhere in the range 70F to 85F, but here they're giving you precise temperature instructions. I do know from experience that Diafine at 85F does not act the same as Diafine at 70F, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect any difference between 68F and 71.6F [sic].

Yea I noticed the instructions are somewhat contradictory.
It didn't quite matter much to me so far as I have the solutions sitting here at room temperature, which is pretty much 22°C / 71.6°F these days anyway.
As mentioned I can't imagine the unstable / imprecise temp between solution B and fix being an issue either (if somebody begs to differ please let me know!)

bvy said:
Also, if you notice, those time/temp values are for T-Max 100 slightly overexposed (at ISO 80).
Looking again at your images, there's little to no shadow detail but your highlights are well done -- hence the extreme contrast. My recommendation:
Try shooting at box speed or slightly under.

Thanks, of course you're right - I was overexposing Acros when I shot it at ISO 200.
I was under the impression though that this was one of the benefits / reasons to use Diafine - the possibility to raise the speed of the film.
Maybe this is where Acros just is a different story compared to other emulsions - I have been shooting quite a few different films at double their box speed and developed just the same way with the same Diafine and they didn't get contrasty like this..

ITKI · Jan 7, 2018

voceumana said:
If you are using a Jobo Processor with continuous agitation, that could be your problem. Diafine's suggested processing indicates gentle intermittent agitation.

The instructions indicate that excess agitation will cause loss of shadow detail. Most two bath formulas are compensating, meaning the highlights run out of developer while the shadows develop more fully. In order to achieve this, agitation must not be excessive, or your highlights develop fully and shadows suffer from underdevelopment. Exactly what you seem to have.

Thank you as well for your thoughts!

I'm just using a regular tank, and have (so far) been using the standard method as described in the PDF linked above -
agitating very gently for the first 5 seconds, and for 5 seconds at 1 minute intervals - which is basically one very smooth inversion (and a gentle tap) that takes 5 seconds.

Not exactly sure what to do next -
- shoot one at box speed and develop the way I used to - or shoot at ISO 200 like before, and
- lower the temperature a little?
- agitate even less, like once every 1,5 mins?

bvy · Jan 7, 2018

ITKI said:
As mentioned I can't imagine the unstable / imprecise temp between solution B and fix being an issue either (if somebody begs to differ please let me know!)

If it is an issue, it's not one that will affect image contrast. Try to keep temperatures between baths as close as possible though.

ITKI said:
Thanks, of course you're right - I was overexposing Acros when I shot it at ISO 200.
I was under the impression though that this was one of the benefits / reasons to use Diafine - the possibility to raise the speed of the film.
Maybe this is where Acros just is a different story compared to other emulsions - I have been shooting quite a few different films at double their box speed and developed just the same way with the same Diafine and they didn't get contrasty like this..

Actually you're underexposing it when you shoot it at 200. I totally missed that Acros was even on that sheet. Acros just doesn't push well in general, and the alternate times and temperatures away from the norm seem to suggest that it's an exception.

ITKI said:
Not exactly sure what to do next -
- shoot one at box speed and develop the way I used to - or shoot at ISO 200 like before, and
- lower the temperature a little?
- agitate even less, like once every 1,5 mins?

Subtle temperature changes don't really have an effect with Diafine. Agitation is done just to avoid uneven development, since development is more or less to completion anyway. I would try shooting at box speed to bring your shadows up and keep your development routine the same. Remember to change one variable at a time when troubleshooting issues like these.

ITKI · Jan 7, 2018

Cheers @bvy I appreciate the feedback.
Will go get some more rolls of Acros next week and try the box speed next week.. will post results..
Thanks again!

Leidolf · Jan 25, 2018

Where do you guys get Diafine these days?

David Allen · Jan 26, 2018

To truly assess what is happening here we will need to see a photo of the negatives because this may be an issue with your scans. You can do this easily by fixing them on a window with Tesa and then taking a photo with a digital camera or your smart phone. Please post this without doing any corrections.

Also, in your original post you wrote "the 30s rinse between A and B". If you are doing a rinse between Bath A and Bath B this is wrong. There should be no rinse between these baths.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

David Allen · Jan 28, 2018

Has this thread died?

david schaller · Jan 28, 2018

You are under-exposing and over-developing. Shoot it at 100, or even at 80, and develop for less time. Be sure to meter and expose for the shadows and place them appropriately.

bvy · Jan 28, 2018

david schaller said:
You are under-exposing and over-developing. Shoot it at 100, or even at 80, and develop for less time. Be sure to meter and expose for the shadows and place them appropriately.

You can't reasonably overdevelop with Diafine.

ITKI · Jan 29, 2018

Leidolf said:
Where do you guys get Diafine these days?

Foto Impex, Berlin

ITKI · Jan 29, 2018

David Allen said:
To truly assess what is happening here we will need to see a photo of the negatives because this may be an issue with your scans. You can do this easily by fixing them on a window with Tesa and then taking a photo with a digital camera or your smart phone. Please post this without doing any corrections.

Also, in your original post you wrote "the 30s rinse between A and B". If you are doing a rinse between Bath A and Bath B this is wrong. There should be no rinse between these baths.

Thank you for your feedback!

Will post a picture of the negatives.

In my OP I meant to say 30s rinse between B and FIX - unfortunately can't edit this post. Sorry for the confusion.

ITKI · Jan 29, 2018

david schaller said:
Shoot it at 100

I will shoot the next roll at 200 again as per the official instruction, but lower the temp to 20°C.

mooseontheloose · Jan 29, 2018

Let us know how it goes - I sometimes use Diafine, but not nearly enough to give advice on it. I’ve never used Acros in it, so I’m interested in your results.

bvy · Jan 29, 2018

ITKI said:
I will shoot the next roll at 200 again as per the official instruction, but lower the temp to 20°C.

I wouldn't expect any difference with Diafine and a two degree change of temperature.

ITKI · Jan 30, 2018

..well I guess you're right @bvy - it apparently is wishful thinking that I can shoot this emulsion @ 200 as it says on the tin to have a somewhat fast film,
so now when it comes to changing one variable at a time I would like to keep the ISO constant and change temperature; though maybe this doesn't make sense.

ITKI · Jan 30, 2018

David Allen said:
need to see a photo of the negatives

There you go (I put them on an LED lamp / transparent paper) as it's pretty dark outside; hope this helps!

So these are from the same roll as images posted in the opening post (see first row of negatives),
as I said chemicals were 22°C, method 5:5.
30sec wash between solution B and fixer (temp around 20°C as I'm not able to keep my tap water constant),
final wash 15mins at around 20°C, which dropped down to something below 15°C at some point.

aleckurgan · Jan 30, 2018

I'd say these are overdeveloped, highlights in the upper strip are clearly blocked. Shadows look OK for a negative that was underexposed by one stop.

ITKI · Jan 31, 2018

aleckurgan said:
I'd say these are overdeveloped, highlights in the upper strip are clearly blocked.

Yea, won't disagree on this - just don't understand how / why it's happening, as I developed as suggested by the manufacturer,
and also (I heard) it's really quite hard to overdevelop with Diafine..

aleckurgan · Jan 31, 2018

There might be a mistake on the manufacturer side. With a regular developer you could reduce your developing time and/or temperature and/or agitation to tame the contrast. But Diafine seems to be a different beast.

Developing Fuji Acros in Diafine - seeking feedback / tips and tricks

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