Developing B&W 4x5 Film

Luckless

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After skimming through the thread I didn't spot anyone referencing the Stearman Press SP 645, which I find a handy option in addition to the SP 445 I already had. It pairs nicely with the 6 frame magazine I have, while the 445 is still useful if I do a partial run out of my regular 2 sheet film holders.

Fill and pour isn't as handy as a Paterson tank with a Mod45 - It takes a bit more care and attention to get the chemistry flowing in at the right rate than just 'dump in the giant unmissable funnel' of a Paterson, but it is still easy enough to use that I'll reach for the SP tanks for my 4x5 film work.
 

Kino

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I intend to eventually get a SP 645 as well. The old bank book is screaming at me now, however...
 

Sirius Glass

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I use Jobo CPP2 with the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum for C-41 color or black & white with XTOL, replenished XTOL or Pyrocat-HD.
 

Luckless

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My wallet had similar screaming, but I talked it into things based on a long term view.

I prefer the simplicity and reduced risks of one shot developer. If I'm putting the effort into recording something on 4x5 film then I rather avoid risks to that image based on the time and material costs that were already sunk into it by the point I get around to starting development.

I added large format to an existing hobby of medium format, and figured the Mod54 was a sensible path at the time to make use of the existing Paterson tanks I already had and was familiar with and very happy with. Other options on the market at the time didn't seem to pencil out as nicely, but then the SP-445 came along and I ended up rethinking the Mod54.

If I were doing replenishment developer then it wouldn't really matter, but I've found myself kind of fond of the ease of use of DD-X, and that adds up in a hurry. Especially at a whole litre for just six sheets.

So really even with the price of the SP-4/645 tanks, they work out to like 50 or so rounds of development to break even on my chemistry costs. And after handling the tanks in a shop I figure the plastic castings look reliable enough that I'm probably going to be able to use that for ages with maybe having to track down a replacement O-ring for the lid.

Now I just have to use my large format camera a whole lot more than I have to justify what I've spent on the tanks... Which makes perfect sense, right?
 

Kino

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Luckless said:
Now I just have to use my large format camera a whole lot more than I have to justify what I've spent on the tanks... Which makes perfect sense, right?
Click to expand...

But of course...
 

choiliefan

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A little late but here's another vote for the old Unicolor or Cibachrome drums and motorized roller.
These things are cheap, virtually unbreakable and extremely thrifty with the chemicals.
Beats the old FR and Yankee tanks I used with medium format, 3X4 and 4X5 sheet films.
When I started shooting 5X7 I realized tray development wasn't for me, graduated to drums and have never felt the need to go back.
 

mrosenlof

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I have used David Kachel's technique for many years

(PDF)

I find it very reliable for small numbers of sheets, I can fit five tubes of 4x5 into an 8x10 tray. I use it for 5x7 and 8x10 also. Does not require chemistry to cover the entire tube just enough to cover the bottom inside of the tube as it rotates.
 

Donald Qualls

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JL Nims said:
How do you control temperature for C-41 using the roller base?
Click to expand...

Most would use the "drift through" method -- start the chemical a couple degrees above "correct" temperature, on the assumption that it'll wind up a couple degrees below after spending the correct time in the tube.
 

qqphot

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I like the SP-445 because I never need to worry about uniformity and it's pretty convenient but it sure is annoying to have to do two runs if I have a full grafmatic to develop, so the 6-sheet version sounds great. Is it essentially just a wider 445? Any other issues with it?
 

abruzzi

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it works identically. A little more developer is needed to cover the sheets due to the extra width.
 
OP
OP

SodaAnt

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How do you get the developer into an SP-445 fast enough to prevent uneven development?
 

Donald Qualls

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SodaAnt said:
How do you get the developer into an SP-445 fast enough to prevent uneven development?
Click to expand...

Use a high dilution so the developing time is long (ten minutes or more)? I doubt it's any worse than the old FR twizzle-only tanks -- probably faster than a stainless tank (which I quit using in part because they were so slow to fill and drain).
 

abruzzi

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honestly I've even used it for E6 (6:15 first dev), without seeing uneven development. Never tried C41(3:30 dev) but I don't really shoot much C41. I do like the way paterson tanks allow you to dump in chemicals willy-nilly, but the Steaman tanks work well. If you're concerned get their 810 tray and put in the dividers.
 

Kino

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SodaAnt said:
How do you get the developer into an SP-445 fast enough to prevent uneven development?
Click to expand...

It takes me about 15 seconds to fill, put on the lids, burp the tank and then agitate for 15 seconds. I then do 5 revolutions per minute (about 10 seconds) and allow 5-7 seconds to fully dump. The way the tank is constructed, it dumps quickly with both caps off, but you have to do 2 pours; one for the main amount, back upright and then dump about a tablespoon out of the baffles.

Never had an issue with uneven development from day-one. The trick is to tilt the tank and pour it into the fill orifice, which is the larger of the two. I rapt it lightly against the sink to dislodge air bubbles after each agitation period.

There are YouTube tutorials on how to use the tank.

Heavily hinting to my wife for Santa to bring the 6 sheet SP 645 version to this good little boy...
 

Donald Qualls

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abruzzi said:
I bought the 6 sheet and 3 grafmatics at basically the same time. the one is ideal with the other.
Click to expand...

If I hadn't already had a Yankee Agitank when the SP-445 came out, I'd probably have gotten one. But I do have that (up to a dozen sheets of 2x3, 6.5x9, 3x4, 9x12, or 4x5). Not great for single or pairs (same liquid requirement for one as for twelve), but if you run replenished it's not a problem. And now I have a Mod54 to do up to six sheets in my large Paterson.

But I agree, the SP-645 is quite literally made for Grafmatic users. As efficient of developer as 35 mm in a spiral, able to agitate intermittently or even stand if you like. Not cheap, but almost nothing is any more.
 

pbromaghin

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I recently made a second attempt at 4x5 after a disastrous try several years ago. Part of the disaster was I had a large Jobo tank with no model number. that held 2 Jobo 4x5 reels and could never get to load properly - even practicing in the light (I have since been using the tank to do up to 5 35mm Patterson reels on a Uniroller). This time around, a new SP-445 has been a revelation. With 4 sheets equaling the same area as one normal film roll, it's easy to keep track of chemical usage.
 

Imaginaut

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I love my SP-445. I use it for extended N- development and semi-stand, and it's consistently excellent. Regarding fill and drain speed, I use fairly dilute Pyrocat HD for the stated applications along with a pre-soak, and so the drain and fill speeds end up being a non-issue. For normal development and all color development I use a Jobo 3010.

The SP-645 doesn't fit my needs, but I can see it occupying a useful niche for others.
 

Besk

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I have found the loader helps when loading the Jobo 4x5 reel.

One 36exp. roll of 35mm = one 120mm roll = 4 sheets 4x5 = 2 sheets of 5x7. Keeping it simple.
I only load four 4x5 sheets per Jobo reel to keep up with the chemical usage.
 

John Wiegerink

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When I was finished with my military service and first married in the early 70's I attended a local university to study photography. After completing a few courses it was 4X5 time. I loved shooting 4X5, but totally dreaded developing time. Our instructor had us do everything as manual as possible. That meant only tray development. That killed me! My stint in Vietnam left me with serious neurological problems and tray development didn't work well for me. I had no inner ear balance function and numbness in the tips of my fingers and other places. That meant in total darkness I could not stand and also could not feel each individual sheet in the tray. I think you can just imagine what my developed 4X5 sheets looked like. We were using a college darkroom so I wasn't afforded the time to develop one sheet at a time. Finally, I darkened the basement where we lived, got some of the wife's glass cake pans and went one sheet at a time at home. If I hadn't done that I would have struggled to pass. I dabbled in 2X3 and 4X5 a few times after that, but mainly stuck with medium format roll film.
Fast forward to the present and it's SP-445 now. Works very well for me and the four sheets only doesn't bother me. If I didn't have the Stearman tank I would go the BTZS route (after watching Andy).
I did have a JOBO CPP2 w/lift system for about 10 yrs. but sold it to fund the purchase of a used Hasselblad body and 120mm macro lens. For the volume I was doing the JOBO wasn't really worth it for me. It was very easy to use, but I find the Stearman for 4X5 and stainless tanks for 35mm and 120 suit me just fine. I'm not an overkill person and sometimes simple just works better for this old mind.
 

RalphLambrecht

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Don_ih said:
I have a reel for a Jobo tank. It can hold 10 sheets, I think - but I shoot so little, I normally only have two in it.

I tried the tank and hanger thing - hated it.
Click to expand...

Jobo makes a plastic reel for 4 sheets, and you can process in one of their rotating machines,which means: very little chemistry!
 

AnselMortensen

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I am enamored with my collection of Stearman Press SP-810 trays.
4 sheets of 4x5, 500ml of chemicals.
Load in the dark, process in daylight.
Follow their recommendations...presoak, and don't do stand development.
 

Don_ih

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RalphLambrecht said:
Jobo makes a plastic reel for 4 sheets, and you can process in one of their rotating machines,which means: very little chemistry!
Click to expand...

My reel is for rotation. But it's not a genuine Jobo product. I got it on eBay at quite a low price. It works well.
 

jk0592

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Even though I have a Jobo 2521 tank and a 2509 reel good for up to 6 sheets, I prefer open tray development. Loading the reel in the dark just does not work for me, whereas open trays are perfect for my 2 or 4 sheets.
 
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