Developing B&W 4x5 Film

[xya]

Works fine, but uses 10X the chemicals needed. You either have to re-use the chemicals and deal with replenishment/time adjustment/record keeping, or throw them out. Just a waste of time or money or both.

For my semi stand it's Rodinal 1:100. That doesn't really count money-wise. And letting it stand an hour doesn't waste time either. No problem if you forgot and it's longer, the solution has used itself up after an hour.

 

[chuckroast]

Works fine, but uses 10X the chemicals needed. You either have to re-use the chemicals and deal with replenishment/time adjustment/record keeping, or throw them out. Just a waste of time or money or both.

Pyrocat-HD is so cheap to make that the difference between 500ml and 2l is negligible. Ditto D-23. Using them at high dilution means they are one shot, so throwing it out is a given.

 

[chuckroast]

I have been using tank and hanger for 50+ years. Reliable and versatile, even for stand development.

After a lot of testing, I concluded that framed hangers are implicated in bromide drag when doing extended, low agitation, high dilution development, at least for some developers.

The unframed kind (like the Kodak Development Hanger No. 6) that just have clips attached to a hanging rail, work great.

 

[Saganich]

I just finished a bunch of 4x5 with my Unicolor Uniroller. I even tried out 4 sheets at once and survived...i had to improvise a thingy to use to keep film separated. D23 stock 7 min at 20C with TriX got it about N for shadows and N+1 in the sky. No issues with loading the tank, surge or drag. It's a nice workflow with some equipment overlap with 35mm small tank developing. I used a glass stirring rod with these stainless steel cloths pins (google it they are great) and out of the wash to hang. Never tried tray shuffle or green light inspection, but intend to try it out once I get a green light.

 

[Peter Schuyler]

xkaes,
Thank you for pointing that out. I use tanks in 500ml, 1000ml, 2000ml, and 4000ml sizes depending on number of sheets to develop. Always diluted one shot. Very economical.
chuckroast,
These hangers from Calumet work very well for extended development.

 

[chuckroast]

xkaes,
Thank you for pointing that out. I use tanks in 500ml, 1000ml, 2000ml, and 4000ml sizes depending on number of sheets to develop. Always diluted one shot. Very economical.
chuckroast,
These hangers from Calumet work very well for extended development.

Interesting. Every attempt I made using the Kodak framed hangers had some risk of drag. Only the frameless hangers worked every time.

I'll have to get some of these to try it out.

 

[Tim Stapp]

I started out tray processing, doing individual sheets. No shuffling of sheets. Graduated to the Jobo system. 2500 Series tanks and the 2509 reels:: Best way in my humble opinion to develop any film.

 

[Mr Negative]

It depends on how much film I have to develop. If it’s just a few sheets I’ll do semi stand in hangers/tanks. If it’s more than a few sheets I’ll fire up the ATL 3 with a 3010 tank. I haven’t had the issues others have mentioned with the metal hangers, using mostly pyrocat HD

 

[Sirius Glass]

It depends on how much film I have to develop. If it’s just a few sheets I’ll do semi stand in hangers/tanks. If it’s more than a few sheets I’ll fire up the ATL 3 with a 3010 tank. I haven’t had the issues others have mentioned with the metal hangers, using mostly pyrocat HD

Once I used the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum on the Jobo processor, I stayed with both of the and never looked back. Best investment ever!

 

[Craig]

I was lucky to buy one of the Jobo 3010 tanks when people were going digital and selling stuff cheap, I'll use it for even one or two sheets. It gives perfectly even developing with low chemical use.

I tried tray developing and ended up getting damage to the sheets from corners poking other sheets unless I was very diligent.

 

[eli griggs]

Wow! I'm impressed with all of the options for developing 4x5 film. I guess I won't be dunking film in a tank in the dark anymore.

I think my best options are the Mod54 in a Paterson tank or the Stearman SP-445.

Thanks everyone!

You only need to keep the DR dark for the developer, stop and half the fix time, before lights can be turned on.

I use Kodak hard rubber tanks with the floating lids and the steel holders.

No problems, easy setup, easy knock down and ideal for still bath development.

I do recommend a dry tank for waiting racks of film before each run and additional tanks for toning, HCA, rinses, holding water bath, because they are uniform in handling, a line can be covered with lids until tomorrow or so, and a blackout curtain liner cover, for lighted room applications.

Racks are easy cleaning and drying, just remember to shake out the final wash and are so easy to load, it's funny.

 

[chuckroast]

I use Kodak hard rubber tanks with the floating lids and the steel holders.

No problems, easy setup, easy knock down and ideal for still bath development.

I also use open tanks to process sheet film. However, for still (semistand/EMA) development, I have found that the stainless steel framed holders are highly prone to bromide drag and streaking. I have confirmed this multiple times with various film and developer combinations. I suspect that the problem is developer trapping along the inner ridges of the frame and not being refreshed because of the infrequent agitations.

Consequently, I use the pinch style minimal contact hangers like the Kodak #6

 

[Rayt]

When I started with 4x5 processing I used the Jobo small 2504 with the manual crank. It did not work out for me because of too much variation depending on how fast I manually spin the tank. If I had a proper set up with the motor then it would have been ok. I then got the Mod54. First I ruined a lot of film because they popped out and got stuck together. It was ok when I corrected my agitation technique. Then came the Stearman SP445. It was perfect. Later I got the Stearman 810 for larger sheet film and also a Paterson Orbital. They are all excellent for 4x5. I still use the Mod54 but only for rinsing the negatives in the Paterson tank with the hose.

 

[eli griggs]

I also use open tanks to process sheet film. However, for still (semistand/EMA) development, I have found that the stainless steel framed holders are highly prone to bromide drag and streaking. I have confirmed this multiple times with various film and developer combinations. I suspect that the problem is developer trapping along the inner ridges of the frame and not being refreshed because of the infrequent agitations.

Consequently, I use the pinch style minimal contact hangers like the Kodak #6

I'm new to stand, semi-stand development and I've always use a 'full frame' SS Kodak hanger, when processing sheet films, in the darkrooms of professionals, always the same model, with the exception of a four sheet hanger, gallon plus tank system, so when I started with my Speed Graphic Ani. LF, those are the type I looked for and bought.

This is never minding a brief affair with small tray hand processing, on my own when I had a 4"x5" Sinar, my first LF camera. I hated it though the films looked good.

I just took a look at the Kodak #6, and liked what I saw, but I don't ever recall an issue with Bromide Drag, with these and I think it's because of how aggressive I'm agitating all films, in tanks and on hangers.

I totally lift out the hangers, at a sharp drain angle, drain, rewet, drain and repeat then a good set of raps to the hangers, in the tanks.

I'm thinking people are simply too gentle handling ng their films, keeping the hangers horizontal to the tank and, possibly, not completely lifting out their hangers, so they get drag marks, IMO.

As much as I like the pinch type, I'll be buying only a few used ones, when able, for stand developing, as needed, as I already have a couple dozen Kodak film hangers and they are very quick to load and process.

I think that is why I never ran into the Kodak #6 in the several labs I worked in, speed, simplicity and typical processing, all being key to a stressed photographer or darkroom worker's long sessions.

Otherwise, I guess my sample group and experiences are too small.

Cheers and Godspeed to All!

 

[chuckroast]

I'm new to stand, semi-stand development and I've always use a 'full frame' SS Kodak hanger, when processing sheet films, in the darkrooms of professionals, always the same model, with the exception of a four sheet hanger, gallon plus tank system, so when I started with my Speed Graphic Ani. LF, those are the type I looked for and bought.

This is never minding a brief affair with small tray hand processing, on my own when I had a 4"x5" Sinar, my first LF camera. I hated it though the films looked good.

I just took a look at the Kodak #6, and liked what I saw, but I don't ever recall an issue with Bromide Drag, with these and I think it's because of how aggressive I'm agitating all films, in tanks and on hangers.

I totally lift out the hangers, at a sharp drain angle, drain, rewet, drain and repeat then a good set of raps to the hangers, in the tanks.

I'm thinking people are simply too gentle handling ng their films, keeping the hangers horizontal to the tank and, possibly, not completely lifting out their hangers, so they get drag marks, IMO.

As much as I like the pinch type, I'll be buying only a few used ones, when able, for stand developing, as needed, as I already have a couple dozen Kodak film hangers and they are very quick to load and process.

I think that is why I never ran into the Kodak #6 in the several labs I worked in, speed, simplicity and typical processing, all being key to a stressed photographer or darkroom worker's long sessions.

Otherwise, I guess my sample group and experiences are too small.

Cheers and Godspeed to All!

For conventional development with regular agitation, the framed hangers work great, and I never had an issue with them. PMK Pyro's very high aerial oxidation rate does mean you have to agitate every 15 seconds or so. The #6s are only mandated for long duration, low agitation protocols.

 

[eli griggs]

For conventional development with regular agitation, the framed hangers work great, and I never had an issue with them. PMK Pyro's very high aerial oxidation rate does mean you have to agitate every 15 seconds or so. The #6s are only mandated for long duration, low agitation protocols.

Thanks for following up; I also never did any stand developing at other's darkrooms, a social failing on their part, not mine, or, at least that's my story.

 

[Roger Thoms]

I use BTZS tubes for 4x5 and my own homemade tubes for 5x7. Low volumes of chemicals required and development times can be tailored for each sheet. I usually develop six 4x5 sheets at once, or four 5x7 sheets.

BTZS tubes, usually.

Another happy BTZS tube user. I have the commercially produced 4x5 tube and tray kit for 4x5, home made 5x7 tubes, and the older style commercial 8x10 tubes. I use a Anova Sous Vide cooker in a water bath to keep the temperature accurate. In addition to the benefits jimjim mentions the development is very even and consistent.

Roger

 

[nosmok]

My favorites for 4x5, in order: 1) 8x10 Unidrum; 2) Stearman; 3) Nikor 4x5 Pack Film tank (12 at a time is great, but chemistry volume is insane, and loading is tricky)...............-1,000,000) FR Yankee tank (The best if you want to get developer and fixer absolutely everywhere. Maybe it's just me.)

 

[chuckroast]

Thanks for following up; I also never did any stand developing at other's darkrooms, a social failing on their part, not mine, or, at least that's my story.

I've kept notes on my exploration of stand development here, if you're interested:

https://gitbucket.tundraware.com/tundra/Stand-Development

 

[Subversive Mk II]

I use a 2509n Jobo reel and made a diy Jobo Expert insert out of pvc tubes glued together, which works reasonably well. At the time I was gathering some old Jobo gear and was absolutely scunnered* at the price Jobo wanted, so made my own.

*Look it up.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

How do you all develop 4x5 B&W film?

I've tried the tray method--hated it. I ended up buying three rubber tanks, stainless steel film hangers, and doing the entire process in the dark using "raise-and-dip" agitation. That was when I had a dedicated darkroom forty years ago.

How do people do it today, and how much is the equipment likely to cost if bought new? I won't be doing high volumes--probably around 10-20 sheets a month.

that volume I'd do in a Jobo, 6 sheets at a time. the rotation process saves a lot of chemicals and gives very even development.

 

[SodaAnt]

I eventually settled on a MOD-54 in a Paterson tank. I also have a SS Nikor tank, which I've never used.

I only load four sheets into the MOD-54 reel. With more practice I could probably load six, but don't want to spend the time or risk scratching negatives.

I also want to try the Jobo 2509n reel, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Anyone tried the Nikor SS tank? Any issues with streaking or inconsistent development?

 

[JL Nims]

I use Unicolor tubes (the smaller size ones). They can do one 8x10, two 5x7 or four 4x5 sheets and only need 300ml of fluid to completely cover the surface. I have the motorized roller base--you can use the Unicolor one or the Beseler. The setup also works for C-41 developing.

Interesting. How do you control temperature for C-41 using the roller base? Or, am I misreading the comment...

 

[Axelwik]

Interesting. How do you control temperature for C-41 using the roller base? Or, am I misreading the comment...

He's probably using it for B&W.

 

[Kino]

I am currently enjoying using the Stearman Press SP 445, 4x5 tank and the SP-8x10 tray until tap water temperatures get lower this Winter.

I have Jobo Expert Drums, but with the cold water in my area reaching 75F/24C, it makes B&W processing times perilously short.

Very frustrating to have invested a great deal in Jobo Expert Drums for my ATL 2300, but not be able to use them without sinking several thousand dollars in a water chiller! Never mind the cost, I don't have the space either for such a unit.

If I had a CP2, it would be different, but with the automatic water tempering of the 2300, you have to have chilled water if your water line temperature is higher than the processing aim temp!