Developing 35mm Film

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

May I suggest on the best method I have so far encounted to develop 35mm film?

If you develop film at 1:1 in D76 or other developer, can I suggest the following method of preparation? Assuming you’re using tap water as part of your developing solution and not distilled or deionized water, this method is fairly easy.

To make a 1:1 developing solution for one 35mm film, you will need 150ml of water mixed with 150ml of developer = 300ml (I know it says 290ml on the tank, but 300ml and its division by ½ to 150ml is easier to remember). This mixture of developer and water should ideally be at a temperature of 68F/20C.

Pour 150ml of developer into a measuring jug and measure its temperature. If it is under or over 68F/20C, make a separate jug of water to compensate for the difference. Example if the developer temperature is 18C, make the water to 22C, before adding 150ml of developer.

To get the water at the required temperature, put a thermometer in the empty jug and add hot and cold, either from two separate taps or a mixer tap. Don’t worry about the quantity as you can let the excess flow over the edge, just concentrate on getting the temperature you require, in this case 22c.Then pour out the excess to leave 150ml and then add to the developer, thus achieving a developer solution at 68f/20c.

And never ever, ever after the film is fixed, washed and dryed, use a squeegee. Let the film dry naturally overnight in a bathroom or airing cabinet.

If others can suggest a better method, I would like to learn about it.

Don_ih · Mar 5, 2023

Only this: "You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer." from Kodak's D76 Instruction sheet, talking about developer diluted 1:1. 150ml of developer is not enough developer for one roll of film without extending the development time.

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

In addition to Don Heisz's concern about D-76 capacity....
Fill a container with 150 ml of stock in one and 150 ml of tap water. To save time, it helps if the tap water is close to ambient temperature.
Leave the it until it reaches ambient temperature. You can also use that time for your stop and fixer to come to ambient temperature.
Develop the film for the time indicated by the ambient temperature.

Don_ih · Mar 5, 2023

I keep a bottle of tap water next to the bottle of d76. They're both the ambient temperature when I mix them. I almost never develop a full roll (I use bulk film and like 15-20 exposures) so 300 ml of D76 1:1 is good enough for me. But it really is noticeable if you go much below the recommended amount per square inch of film.

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

Don Heisz said:
Only this: "You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer." from Kodak's D76 Instruction sheet, talking about developer diluted 1:1. 150ml of developer is not enough developer for one roll of film without extending the development time.

No, 150ml of developer is not enough, because you have not read my post correctly. It is then added to 150ml of water.

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

MattKing said:
In addition to Don Heisz's concern about D-76 capacity....
Fill a container with 150 ml of stock in one and 150 ml of tap water. To save time, it helps if the tap water is close to ambient temperature.
Leave the it until it reaches ambient temperature. You can also use that time for your stop and fixer to come to ambient temperature.
Develop the film for the time indicated by the ambient temperature.

Matt, you are assuming the ambient temperature is 68f/20c. This is not always the case.

Don_ih · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
No, 150ml of developer is not enough, because you have not read my post correctly. It is then added to 150ml of water.

150 ml of developer plus 150 ml of water is only 300 ml of diluted developer which is not enough for one roll of 36 exposures. (You didn't read my post correctly, Clive )

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

Don Heisz said:
150 ml of developer plus 150 ml of water is only 300 ml of diluted developer which is not enough for one roll of 36 exposures. (You didn't read my post correctly, Clive )

What sort of tank are you using?

Don_ih · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
What sort of tank are you using?

What I'm actually saying is, Kodak recommends (for good reason) that you use ~240ml of undiluted D76 per 36-exposure roll. So you use ~480 ml of D76 1:1 for a 36 exposure roll. That is the capacity of the developer. 150ml of developer will get weakened too much by a 36 exposure roll, diluted to 300ml or not, so would require a longer amount of time and may (will) impact contrast.

That's true in a Nikkor tank, a Paterson tank, a Jobo tank, a tray, or any other kind of thing.

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

Don Heisz said:
What I'm actually saying is, Kodak recommends (for good reason) that you use ~240ml of undiluted D76 per 36-exposure roll. So you use ~480 ml of D76 1:1 for a 36 exposure roll. That is the capacity of the developer. 150ml of developer will get weakened too much by a 36 exposure roll, diluted to 300ml or not, so would require a longer amount of time and may (will) impact contrast.

That's true in a Nikkor tank, a Paterson tank, a Jobo tank, a tray, or any other kind of thing.

Well on my Paterson tank it states 290ml for one 35mm film. So what are you talking about?

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
Well on my Paterson tank it states 290ml for one 35mm film. So what are you talking about?

That doesn't tell you how much developer to use. It only tells you how much liquid is necessary to cover the reels sufficiently. For some developers, the developer has enough chemical activity in it that 150 ml of stock won't partially exhaust. D-76 isn't one of them.

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
Matt, you are assuming the ambient temperature is 68f/20c. This is not always the case.

Just adjust the time to match the ambient temperature.
There are charts and tables which tell you how much. I use the Developing Computer dial in the Kodak Black and White Darkroom Dataguide.

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

MattKing said:
Just adjust the time to match the ambient temperature.
There are charts and tables which tell you how much. I use the Developing Computer dial in the Kodak Black and White Darkroom Dataguide.
View attachment 331561

Matt, that be all very well, but if the temperature strays beyond one of the chemical optimum performance, it may not give you the consistency you require. My method keeps development at an optimon 68/20

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
Matt, that be all very well, but if the temperature strays beyond one of the chemical optimum performance, it may not give you the consistency you require. My method keeps development at an optimon 68/20

Between 18-24C, there is essentially no variance from optimum with any common developer and film combinations.

cliveh · Mar 5, 2023

MattKing said:
Between 18-24C, there is essentially no variance from optimum with any common developer and film combinations.

Yes Matt, I fully agree, but I still think my original post is the best method of developing a 35mm film.

grain elevator · Mar 5, 2023

Is... is any of this not common sense?

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
Yes Matt, I fully agree, but I still think my original post is the best method of developing a 35mm film.

Whether you choose to carefully control temperature, or carefully control time depends on your own circumstances.
If I wasn't always working in temporary setups, and had reliable temperature control for water, controlling temperature would be a much more viable option.
For most though, it is far easier to accurately control developing time.
Most of my development involves replenished developer, and being able to work at ambient temperature works perfectly with that.

Maris · Mar 5, 2023

cliveh said:
Matt, that be all very well, but if the temperature strays beyond one of the chemical optimum performance, it may not give you the consistency you require. My method keeps development at an optimon 68/20

My darkroom often settles to 27 Celcius all day so I've found developing at 20C is not the way to go.

It is a difficult thing to adjust development temperature to 68/20 when the darkroom ambient is a long way different.
Just getting to that temperature is a lot of fussing. Measuring that temperature is an accuracy challenge.
Stabilising the developer against temperature drift during several minutes of development time is potentially an illusion.
Even vigorous agitation warms the developer a bit.
A temperature drift of only 1 degree Celcius can change a 9 minute development time into a 8 minute development time; a significant off-target mistake.
I reckon forcing the development temperature to where it doesn't want to go is an unstable situation with risk of drift and error.

Developing at an unchanging ambient temperature is a lot more precise and consistent. An the adjusted development time can be calibrated to the second. Very exact indeed.

aparat · Mar 5, 2023

Don Heisz said:
Only this: "You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer." from Kodak's D76 Instruction sheet, talking about developer diluted 1:1. 150ml of developer is not enough developer for one roll of film without extending the development time.

That's a very good suggestion.

I tested XTOL with regard to the least amount of developer, going from 500 ml all the way to 75 ml of XTOL stock, trying to see what impact the changing amount of developer made. I processed a roll of 36 exposure film, with each frame exposed for Zone VIII. I found a small, but consistent drop in overall contrast when the amount of developer was less than 250ml. Here's a link to that post. Personally, I settled on 250 ml being the least amount of conventional developer, such as XTOL and D-76 that I would use per roll.

As far as temperature is concerned, I do remember testing D-76 in 27 or 28C and got an increase in B+F density. I am going to have to re-test it, as others have found no increase in fog, as in this thread.

drkhalsa · Mar 5, 2023

I have enjoyed cliveh's photographs posted in the gallery. So the question that comes to my mind is how would a change to an increased amount of developer in his process affect his photographs?

aparat · Mar 5, 2023

drkhalsa said:
I have enjoyed cliveh's photographs posted in the gallery. So the question that comes to my mind is how would a change to an increased amount of developer in his process affect his photographs?

Good question! Likely, no difference at all. Any difference in contrast. as a function of developer quantity, would have been subtle and, likely, compensated for during the scanning process.

MattKing · Mar 5, 2023

aparat said:
That's a very good suggestion.

I tested XTOL with regard to the least amount of developer, going from 500 ml all the way to 75 ml of XTOL stock, trying to see what impact the changing amount of developer made. I processed a roll of 36 exposure film, with each frame exposed for Zone VIII. I found a small, but consistent drop in overall contrast when the amount of developer was less than 250ml. Here's a link to that post. Personally, I settled on 250 ml being the least amount of conventional developer, such as XTOL and D-76 that I would use per roll.

View attachment 331567

As far as temperature is concerned, I do remember testing D-76 in 27 or 28C and got an increase in B+F density. I am going to have to re-test it, as others have found no increase in fog, as in this thread.

I would be very surprised to see similar results with D-76 and X-Tol - the manufacturer's capacity numbers are quite different for those two developers.
And of course a Zone VIII exposure for every frame is a lot different than what might be considered a "typical" roll.

Craig · Mar 6, 2023

cliveh said:
Well on my Paterson tank it states 290ml for one 35mm film. So what are you talking about?

It's the difference between the amount of fluid needed to cover the film in the tank, vs the amount needed for the correct amount of chemical activity to develop the film. In the linked data sheet, Kodak says that the capacity is 2 rolls per litre of 1:1 D76.

Thus 300ml of 1:1 D76 doesn't contain enough chemicals to properly develop the film, even though it will completely immerse the film in a Paterson tank- the developer is too diluted.

Craig · Mar 6, 2023

MattKing said:
If I wasn't always working in temporary setups, and had reliable temperature control for water, controlling temperature would be a much more viable option.

I typically work with Xtol-R, so mixing of various temperature fluids isn't really an option.

What I've always done when I need to change the temperature of a solution is I draw off however much I need into a Erlenmeyer flask, and then put that into a larger bucket containing water that is hotter or colder, depending if I need to add heat or remove it. I stir the fluid to keep it circulating and exposed to the waterbath and watch the temperature, For typical developing volumes, it doesn't take long to move a few degrees to the temperature I need.

BMbikerider · Mar 6, 2023

Don Heisz said:
Only this: "You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches) in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL (one quart) of diluted developer." from Kodak's D76 Instruction sheet, talking about developer diluted 1:1. 150ml of developer is not enough developer for one roll of film without extending the development time.

That is absolutely not correct!
I have used Ilford ID11 for most of my work which is next door to being identical to D76, and on occasions D76 itself. Always diluted 1 to 1 (both) I use a JOBO tank which when used in a processor only requires 150cc of developer. I dilute 75cc of stock with an equal amount of water and develop for the suggested time, less 15% (as suggested) to accommodate the constant agitation by the processor. If anything the film I processed last night was slightly 'overcooked'

My most recent film was done last night and it worked as it always does some of the frames will be printed this morning

On the occasions when I process a 120 film, the JOBO requires 250cc for rotational development so that means I use 125cc of stock developer and 125cc water. I always get the same result (except in the case of operator error.)

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