Dektol question

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pdccamerqs

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Hi all,

Yesterday, I cut open a bag of Kodak Dektol powder, bought fresh from B&H in 2024 with a 2027 expiration date. The powder was a mix of brown and white, and produced a dark brown, strong-tea colored solution when mixed with 3L of 100 degree F water. I threw it all away fearing the powder had oxidized in the bag somehow. I have read past posts on here and on the B&H site describing this issue and was just wondering if anyone has purchased any in the last 3 months or so that is no longer brown?

Thanks,

Paul
 

F4U

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No, it shouldn't be tea colored, although what you mixed up might have worked well enough for temporary use. If everything is right, a new freshly mixed stock solution won't be totally clear as water. I've always observed a faint tan tinge, but thats all. There should be no dark powder content. But since Eastman Kodak Co went bankrupt and sold off their formulas and trademark, nothing was ever quite the same. Eastman Kodak was one company with impeccable standards. Reading your problem is disappointing, but not wholly unexpected.
 

MattKing

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No, it shouldn't be tea colored, although what you mixed up might have worked well enough for temporary use. If everything is right, a new freshly mixed stock solution won't be totally clear as water. I've always observed a faint tan tinge, but thats all. There should be no dark powder content. But since Eastman Kodak Co went bankrupt and sold off their formulas and trademark, nothing was ever quite the same. Eastman Kodak was one company with impeccable standards. Reading your problem is disappointing, but not wholly unexpected.

Eastman Kodak still owns their trademarks - at least all the ones that we tend to care about here. They were successful in emerging from bankruptcy.
Eastman Kodak hadn't been actually manufacturing the still film photo-chemicals themselves for many years before the bankruptcy - they had been contracting with others for years.
Some of those European based contract manufacturers subsequently went bankrupt themselves, and they didn't survive bankruptcy.
The relatively recent licensing agreement with Photo Systems - the current US based manufacturers of Kodak branded still film photo-chemicals - came about after rights to use the Kodak name for still film photo-chemicals reverted to Eastman Kodak, after the previous holder of those rights went into bankruptcy during the worst of the Covid pandemic.
There were apparently extensive negotiations respecting Photo Systems' acquisition of those rights - which were likely to include quality control promises.
Photo Systems has a long history of history in the photo chemical industry - one of their continuing brand names is Unicolor, who have been around for decades.

Discoloration can be due to a damaged package.

Reach out to your retailer. Failing that, and assuming that the packaging indicates it originated from the USA, reach out to Photo Systems, whose website for the Kodak branded stuff is here: https://kodak.photosys.com/
If you reach out to Photo Systems, you will most likely hear back from their contracted worldwide distributor CineStill, who also supply customer service.
 

mshchem

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Times change.

Just FYI I have a ridiculous number of steel cans of Kodak made chemistry from the 70's back to the 50's. It is perfect free flowing powder. Good as it was the day it was made. Dektol, Microdol-X, Selectol, D-76. Beautiful stuff 1 quart to 5 gallon.

Not sure that you could buy materials like what Kodak could buy and/or manufacture in the 20th century.

PSI is a darn good company, i'm sure going forward the Kodak branded items will be fine.
 

F4U

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Perhaps one day, the Kodak developers will once again be sold in cans. I remember when they went from cans to bags in he 70's, then made of plastic-lined paper. Then to much better metalized plastic bags, maybe mid 80's? I bet I've ended up with hundreds of those "post can" bags of chemicals acquiring and trading photographic gear. None of those chemicals any good any more. But a 60 year old can of developer? Good as the day it was made, right now in 2025. I don't believe I'd eat any WWII K-rations, if I came upon any. But a can of Kodak developer will probably be just as good even after the zombie apocalypse. Thanks for clearing up the Kodak history, Matt. As for the OPs question, I can offer no help. Even if there had been an air leak into the bag, it still should have been good for a couple years, anyway
 
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Back when Sino Promise was manufacturing Kodak chemistry, I got bad packages of Dektol, D-76 and Xtol, all of which had to be thrown out. That’s when I swore off (at?) all Kodak chemistry and started making everything myself.

But 2 months ago I took a chance on the Photo Systems Inc. version of Xtol, and it’s been just fine. I will occasionally buy Xtol going forward., but only if it’s made by Photo Systems Inc. I would recommend NOT using any Kodak chemistry made by Sino Promise - it was a gamble whether or not you got usable chemistry.
 
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pdccamerqs

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Thanks all! The combined and accumulated knowledge of the people on this site is amazing! Since getting back into film photography about three years ago, I have been using D-76 for films with no problems and Ilford pre-mixed MG developer, and I have been happy with both, but I am curious about going back to my 1970's darkroom roots and try some Dektol again. I seem to remember my prints being a bit "snappier" in tone and contrast with Dektol back then. I realize there could be a million reasons for this impression, including aging eyesight, but I thought I would give it a try - and then the brown powder! I will order another bag and see how it goes. At least Dektol is less expensive! Thanks! Paul
 

darkroommike

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Eastman Kodak still owns their trademarks - at least all the ones that we tend to care about here. They were successful in emerging from bankruptcy.
Eastman Kodak hadn't been actually manufacturing the still film photo-chemicals themselves for many years before the bankruptcy - they had been contracting with others for years.
Some of those European based contract manufacturers subsequently went bankrupt themselves, and they didn't survive bankruptcy.
The relatively recent licensing agreement with Photo Systems - the current US based manufacturers of Kodak branded still film photo-chemicals - came about after rights to use the Kodak name for still film photo-chemicals reverted to Eastman Kodak, after the previous holder of those rights went into bankruptcy during the worst of the Covid pandemic.
There were apparently extensive negotiations respecting Photo Systems' acquisition of those rights - which were likely to include quality control promises.
Photo Systems has a long history of history in the photo chemical industry - one of their continuing brand names is Unicolor, who have been around for decades.

Discoloration can be due to a damaged package.

Reach out to your retailer. Failing that, and assuming that the packaging indicates it originated from the USA, reach out to Photo Systems, whose website for the Kodak branded stuff is here: https://kodak.photosys.com/
If you reach out to Photo Systems, you will most likely hear back from their contracted worldwide distributor CineStill, who also supply customer service.

PSI is definitely "the good stuff", the company made color chemicals for Unicolor (and I suspect others) all the way back to the E-4 days and made/distributed some of the Unicolor hardware, too.
 

MattKing

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As I understand it, PSI is Unicolor!
 

MattKing

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Perhaps one day, the Kodak developers will once again be sold in cans. I remember when they went from cans to bags in he 70's, then made of plastic-lined paper. Then to much better metalized plastic bags, maybe mid 80's? I bet I've ended up with hundreds of those "post can" bags of chemicals acquiring and trading photographic gear. None of those chemicals any good any more. But a 60 year old can of developer? Good as the day it was made, right now in 2025. I don't believe I'd eat any WWII K-rations, if I came upon any. But a can of Kodak developer will probably be just as good even after the zombie apocalypse. Thanks for clearing up the Kodak history, Matt. As for the OPs question, I can offer no help. Even if there had been an air leak into the bag, it still should have been good for a couple years, anyway

FWIW, I expect the combination of the costs of using cans, shipping cans, and reserving shelf space on the few remaining retailer shelves for cans would so dwarf the costs of the developer itself that if Kodak developers came in cans, you would only be able to buy them in a Leica store! :smile:
 

darkroommike

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Times change.

Just FYI I have a ridiculous number of steel cans of Kodak made chemistry from the 70's back to the 50's. It is perfect free flowing powder. Good as it was the day it was made. Dektol, Microdol-X, Selectol, D-76. Beautiful stuff 1 quart to 5 gallon.

Not sure that you could buy materials like what Kodak could buy and/or manufacture in the 20th century.

PSI is a darn good company, i'm sure going forward the Kodak branded items will be fine.

Same here! I also have a stash of canned goods including Kodak, Acufine, and Diafine. I also have a much smaller stash of Acu-1, the one-shot version of Acufine, which was my go to for many years. I'm afraid that when my Acu-1 is gone, it's gone for good, haven't seen any on Ebay for a couple of years and the company seems to have to interest in producing another run.

I have had a couple of Ansco can's that were really rusty and must have lost their seal but any intact cans should be fine for a long, long time. Cans of acid fixer might be more suspect than cans of developer.
 

Bill Burk

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FWIW new bags have batch number imprinting. They solved the issue.

The brown Dektol that I had came without the batch imprint.
 

mshchem

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Same here! I also have a stash of canned goods including Kodak, Acufine, and Diafine. I also have a much smaller stash of Acu-1, the one-shot version of Acufine, which was my go to for many years. I'm afraid that when my Acu-1 is gone, it's gone for good, haven't seen any on Ebay for a couple of years and the company seems to have to interest in producing another run.

I have had a couple of Ansco can's that were really rusty and must have lost their seal but any intact cans should be fine for a long, long time. Cans of acid fixer might be more suspect than cans of developer.

No Kodak cans with a pull tab aluminum top! A brief marketing mistake! I should start a free developing service to get rid of this stuff 😂
 

F4U

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We never did offer the OP an answer as to why his nearly new bag of developer is bad I'm not so sure there is a satisfactory answer. One thing's for sure... being dark tea colored ain't right.
 

MattKing

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We never did offer the OP an answer as to why his nearly new bag of developer is bad I'm not so sure there is a satisfactory answer. One thing's for sure... being dark tea colored ain't right.

Discoloration can be due to a damaged package.

Not true :smile:
 

mshchem

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PSI is definitely "the good stuff", the company made color chemicals for Unicolor (and I suspect others) all the way back to the E-4 days and made/distributed some of the Unicolor hardware, too.

And Dexter Michigan (greater Ann Arbor Michigan) home of Argus back in the day, and Jobo former USA HQ.
 
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pdccamerqs

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Probably had more to do with using fixed grade papers.

Hi Don,

I recall using mostly Kodak polycontrast RC paper back then, printed on Beseler condenser enlargers and souped in Dektol 1:1. If I wanted some real contrast, I would buy a pack of Agfa Brovira 6!
 
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pdccamerqs

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Has anyone here tried Photographer's Formulary TD-30 Improved Dektol?

Screenshot 2025-07-22 at 8.47.50 PM.png
 

darkroommike

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"Dektol" is a proprietary formula, not sure how anyone can improve it since the formula is unpublished. You can improve Dektol or any paper developer by tinkering with the chemistry. Add potassium bromide to cut fog and warm the print color, add Benzotriazole to cut fog and cool the print color, add a little sodium carbonate to make "snappier" prints. The description of TD-30 actually sounds a lot like the "blurb" for the old Zone VI paper developer (which was "just" D-72).
Has anyone here tried Photographer's Formulary TD-30 Improved Dektol?

View attachment 403709

ktol"
 

Alex Benjamin

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Has anyone here tried Photographer's Formulary TD-30 Improved Dektol?

View attachment 403709

We had a thread on this not to long ago.

 

chuckroast

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Hi all,

Yesterday, I cut open a bag of Kodak Dektol powder, bought fresh from B&H in 2024 with a 2027 expiration date. The powder was a mix of brown and white, and produced a dark brown, strong-tea colored solution when mixed with 3L of 100 degree F water. I threw it all away fearing the powder had oxidized in the bag somehow. I have read past posts on here and on the B&H site describing this issue and was just wondering if anyone has purchased any in the last 3 months or so that is no longer brown?

Thanks,

Paul

The problem has been fixed in newer batches
 

dcy

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The relatively recent licensing agreement with Photo Systems - the current US based manufacturers of Kodak branded still film photo-chemicals - came about after rights to use the Kodak name for still film photo-chemicals reverted to Eastman Kodak, after the previous holder of those rights went into bankruptcy during the worst of the Covid pandemic.

Was that Sino Promise? What's the story? I've been confused by this part of the history. On the one hand I read that Kodak had lost the rights to Kodak-branded chemistry, and on the other I've read that when Sino Promise exited the business Kodak made a licensing agreement with PSI, and I've been scratching my head about that ---- How can Kodak make a licensing agreement for rights they supposedly do not have?


Photo Systems has a long history of history in the photo chemical industry - one of their continuing brand names is Unicolor, who have been around for decades.

They also make the chemistry for Clayton, CineStill, and Freestyle's multiple house brands.


If you reach out to Photo Systems, you will most likely hear back from their contracted worldwide distributor CineStill, who also supply customer service.

Does CineStill do customer service for just Kodak-branded chemicals or is it for other PSI products as well? (i.e. Unicolor).
 

MattKing

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Was that Sino Promise? What's the story? I've been confused by this part of the history. On the one hand I read that Kodak had lost the rights to Kodak-branded chemistry, and on the other I've read that when Sino Promise exited the business Kodak made a licensing agreement with PSI, and I've been scratching my head about that ---- How can Kodak make a licensing agreement for rights they supposedly do not have?




They also make the chemistry for Clayton, CineStill, and Freestyle's multiple house brands.




Does CineStill do customer service for just Kodak-branded chemicals or is it for other PSI products as well? (i.e. Unicolor).

Kodak still film photo-chemicals were already being contract manufactured for Eastman Kodak prior to the bankruptcy.
As part of the bankruptcy settlement, the trustee in bankruptcy and the (UK) Kodak Limited pension plan (and the UK statutory authority that guaranteed its obligations) came to an agreement whereby the pension plan received as settlement for its super-priority secured claim:
1) various real property (including leasehold property) interests; and
2) a license for exclusive worldwide rights to manufacture, market and distribute:
a) Kodak branded photographic paper - just colour paper, because Kodak left the black and white market a few years before the bankruptcy;
b) Kodak branded photo-chemicals; and
c) Kodak branded technology relating to a business involved with office document scanning and management.
In addition, and most importantly, the pension plan received:
d) a license for exclusive worldwide rights to market and distribute Kodak branded still films.
In return, the trustee received from the (UK) Kodak Limited pension plan (and the UK statutory authority that guaranteed its obligations):
e) a release of the claim of the plan against the bankrupt's estate for potential future pension shortfalls;
f) a large sum of money - I've seen a few numbers, but $600,000,000.00 USD seems most common; and
g) through the hiring by Kodak Alaris of a substantial proportion of Eastman Kodak's remaining worldwide employee base, relief from many of the claims that those employees might have made.
All of which permitted Eastman Kodak to survive the bankruptcy, albeit as a considerably smaller business entity.
Kodak Alaris was the business incorporated by the pension plan to operate the business received.
Kodak Alaris then took steps to both continue parts of the business and sell off other assets and parts of the business.
They sold the property interests fairly quickly. That left them with just the marketing and distribution rights of all the photographic parts of the deal.
They have continued to operate the office document related business.
But with respect to the photographic paper and still film photo-chemicals businesses, Kodak Alaris sold those marketing and distribution rights to Sino-Promise, who after a few tumultuous years, went bankrupt themselves, due at least partly to the results of the COVID pandemic.
Kodak Alaris was also badly affected by the COVID pandemic - one result being some re-negotiation in Eastman Kodak's favour, of some of the terms of the rights agreement that formed part of the bankruptcy settlement.
Kodak Alaris itself was recently sold as a going concern by the UK pension authority (who had taken over the Kodak Limited pension plan) to US investors. It remains a UK based corporation, and continues to hold the license for exclusive worldwide marketing and distribution rights for Kodak branded still films.
Although there was some uncertainty for a while, it was eventually determined that the bankruptcy/default of Sino Promise resulted in the license for rights purchased by Sino Promise from Kodak Alaris for Kodak branded photo-chemicals reverting back to Eastman Kodak. Eastman Kodak has recently licensed those rights again - to PSI.

Well, you did ask! :smile:.

PSI probably make some of the chemicals that you reference - possibly most of them - but not necessarily all of them.

And I don't know who PSI has doing the customer service for their other brands. CineStill has the capacity to handle the worldwide distribution responsibilities for the Kodak branded stuff. I'm not sure that the potential business for the other products requires that.
 
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