Deficiencies in DIY C-41 Chemistry

[Wayne]

I have priced it out to $2.30/L for C-41 and $1.90/L for ECN-2. Of course it also means hundreds of dollars in equipment as well, even if you go the cheap route. At this point I have spent enough that I probably could have bought enough chemicals for a year of developing and saved myself the headache as well. So is it cheaper? Yes and no. And that's with the caveat that my C-41 is still not quite performing at the level I'd like. It outperforms the powder from cinestill in overall color balance but still lacks the punchiness in the reds and greens. That being said, I think home brewing is worth it if you are consistently developing ECN-2. It's cheaper, has less ingredients and I consistently get good results from the published EK recipe.

C-41 has proved more complicated, at least for me. My V4 (with the potassium iodide included this time) is certainly acceptable for use but creates a noticeably cooler tone when compared directly to the factory chems I have available. Still ironing that discrepancy out, although a cooler tone could be desirable depending on what you find to be your "ideal" image.

Other than an expensive pH meter that I chafe at and probably would not buy, I believe I have everything else that I need. So I don't think it would cost me hundreds, it would only cost me whatever I pay for a less expensive pH meter and calibration solutions, and the chemicals. I've never shot ECN and have no plans to. Since (what I consider) decent C-41 costs $30/liter, and only develops 8 rolls of 120 without reuse, and I don't reuse, anything under 10-15 bucks is quite attractive for DIY. $2.30 would be a dream! I could actually start shooting a lot again.

But it has to work as well as good commercial product, or it doesn't "make sense." Never tried Cinestill or any of the "off brands" because I don't trust them. Unless UNicolor is considered an "off brand."

Anyway I don't want to derail your thread and I hope you solve your issues, as that would be encouraging to me.

 

[koraks]

it seems like the savings over commercial products would be significant

Depends on where you source and what you source. I cannot privately make C41 developer meaningfully cheaper than the minilab Fuji C41 developer I've been using the past few years. So the 'not making sense' for me was also an economic issue. Indeed, as you said, there's the equipment, and if you factor in your time and the cost of film involved in testing/troubleshooting, things are even less attractive. The DIY route has always been a kind of Plan B for me, and it just never really promoted to plan A status...

Since (what I consider) decent C-41 costs $30/liter

Local supply varies massively across the planet, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't beat this price by a mile. Around here, 10l of Fuji C41 replenisher (which makes 12.5l of developer) costs something like €60. That's the smallest minilab quantity you can buy.
Kits of 500ml, 1000ml etc. are of course relatively speaking far more expensive. If you're cost sensitive, those kits aren't the best choice.

 

[Spektrum]

It was the low prices of Fuji C-41 chemicals that encouraged me to give up experimenting with my own C-41 developer.

In Poland, 10 liters of Fuji Hunt C-41 developer costs 177 PLN, and this price includes 23% VAT (we have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe). 177 PLN is equivalent to 41.60 EUR. I also had to buy a 1 liter starter for 90 PLN (21.20 EUR incl VAT), but this starter will probably be enough for about 66 liters of working solution. This chemical is manufactured in Belgium. Poland is many kilometers away, and I am sure, shipping the chemical isn't cheap. I don't understand why in the Netherlands, Belgium's direct neighbor, is so much more expensive. I understand that a Dutch seller has to make money, but the wholesaler where I bought it in Poland also makes money. And Polish sellers really do not spare their customers.

I don't want to irritate anyone here but the prices of Kodak films are also rather lower compared to e.g. MACODIRECT DE - a roll of KODAK GOLD 200/36 (expires 2027/04) costs 9.90 EUR (incl VAT). Recently they had a promotion for KODAK PRO IMAGE 100/36 films (expires 2025/12) and sold them for 6.12 EUR (incl VAT). I bought a whole bucket of these films.
I guess I should stop complaining about the price of color film here. I just keep worrying about how long these relatively lower prices will last.

 

[Wayne]

Depends on where you source and what you source. I cannot privately make C41 developer meaningfully cheaper than the minilab Fuji C41 developer I've been using the past few years. So the 'not making sense' for me was also an economic issue. Indeed, as you said, there's the equipment, and if you factor in your time and the cost of film involved in testing/troubleshooting, things are even less attractive. The DIY route has always been a kind of Plan B for me, and it just never really promoted to plan A status...

But did it give you the same high quality results, or was it just "adequate" after all your testing? Ah, ok, here's what you said: "results were just fine – I never did any very systematic comparisons with big-brand chemistry, but negatives and prints were by all means presentable and usable."

I'm just not sure if that is a 4.8 star endorsement or a 3 star endorsement. ;-)

Local supply varies massively across the planet, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't beat this price by a mile. Around here, 10l of Fuji C41 replenisher (which makes 12.5l of developer) costs something like €60. That's the smallest minilab quantity you can buy.
Kits of 500ml, 1000ml etc. are of course relatively speaking far more expensive. If you're cost sensitive, those kits aren't t

Economy of scale is only available to those who can afford it. It costs a lot more up front to buy in volume, and requires shooting more film too to avoid wasting it. When you are stuck buying small kits, its about $30 a liter. The Kodak 2.5 liter kit is slightly less, at $60, but all of it requires shipping costs too so its still $30/liter or more. So yeah, even 10 or 15 bucks a liter for DIY would be well worth it to me but only if the quality and consistency is there.