Defective Darkroom Supplies Galore

[Sirius Glass]

Thank you! Is there a specific reason you like XTOL? That's a two part developer, right?

Wrong. Mix Solution A completely then add Solution B. See post #46 for some of the reasons.

 

[MattKing]

Is there a specific reason you like XTOL? That's a two part developer, right?

XTol comes in two bags, just like Ilford's ID-11 (equivalent to Kodak's D-76). It really isn't materially more difficult to mix up developers one bag at a time, vs. mixing up just one bag.
Two part developers involve putting film first into one solution and then, after it is finished, putting the film in another solution.
Semantics, but important.

 

[wyofilm]

It is easy to confuse developers that are shipped in two parts, but mixed together before use. Xtol is like this. There are other developers, often called two part developers or divided developers that are used in two stages in developing film. This second type is not as common.

 

[wyofilm]

Here is a brief resource page from Ilford. It lists many products, but also start to give some indication of why one developer is used over another. If you read the tech pages from Ilford on each developer, then you will get a good idea of developer choice.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ILFORD-PHOTO-to-Kodak-equivalents.pdf

 

[mshchem]

Note that D-76, D-72 all started as Kodak formulas. You would but Kodak "Tested Chemicals" a small twin pan balance and some sort of weight set. With 6 or 7 ingredients you could formulate various formulas of developer, stop, fixers, hardener, toners etc. The ingredients were sold separately. Kodak branded Metol as Elon, not sure if Mr. Musk's parents had a sweet spot for this developing agent.
In the 40's and 50's canned powders became more mainstream. Some cans had two ends with a divider in between. You would open 1 end dissolve it first then the second.
Some are still packaged like this only in plastic bags.

 

[wyofilm]

There are a half a dozen or so common developers that will yield wonderful results with most any film shot in a standard way. To name a few Rodinal (liquid concentrate), DD-X (liquid concentrate), ID-ll (power), Ilfosol 3 (powder), Ilfotec HC (concentrated liquid), Xtol (power), D-76 (powder), and HC-110. Some on the list are Ilford products, some are Kodak products; the outlier is Rodinal. All will yield excellent results; all are versatile. The first main decision is do you want to mix powder (usually in the 1 gal to 5 litre range) or do you want to dilute a small amount of concentrated liquid each time you develop. For general work, I really like the convenience of using concentrated liquids. Using concentrated liquids is generally more expensive, but most often marginally so.

Some developers last a long time time - others fail without warning upon storage (Xtol come to mind). I use DD-X (on the expensive side) because it yields excellent results, is convenient, and has never failed me. I also us Rodinal (on the cheap side) because it is convenient, yields excellent results, and has never failed me.

You won't go wrong using any of the developers on the list above for most all situations. Other companies (Arista comes to mind) offer similar products. I've not used them so I can't comment.

 

[AgX]

Of course, Photrio is a great resource. There is a lot of wisdom here and relatively little BS.

However concerning the choice of developers Apug is rather confusing, for a newbie at least.

 

[wyofilm]

However concerning the choice of developers Apug is rather confusing, for a newbie at least.

That can be true. Keeping it simple is the best policy when first starting out (or returning from a long absence). The first film I developed after my long hiatus was the old guard D-76 - and guess what? It worked great. I also knew I was busy and wanted something 'off the shelf' ready to go. So I picked Ilford's HC - and guess what? It worked great. Then some time passed and read that DD-X was the way to go - it would make me my pictures better and me younger. And guess what? It worked damn near the same as D-76 and HC. Next, I picked Rodinal because I was teaching my kids about photography and I read about just how fool proof semi-stand development is. There are short comings, but guess what it worked. And so on.

The first goal in film development is to get something that looks pretty darn good - even if it isn't perfect. This also means learning to work in a dark bag, loading film, temperature control and making all the silly mistakes that happen early on. No reason to get worked up over choosing perfect developers.

 

[wyofilm]

Ilford specifically recommends DD-X as the best overall developer for all of its films and what should be used by those new to film developing.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/guide-to-chemistry-for-processing-film/

 

[wyofilm]

Kodak Alaris specifically recommends as their go to all around developer.

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/AJ-3.pdf

I don't know if anyone else feels the resolution, but I do. Advice for film developer for someone starting out: Ilford DD-X (concentrated liquid) or Kodak Alaris Xtol (powder).

And yes, I realize it is just a conversation with myself at this point.

 

[mshchem]

Kodak Alaris specifically recommends as their go to all around developer.

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/AJ-3.pdf

I don't know if anyone else feels the resolution, but I do. Advice for film developer for someone starting out: Ilford DD-X (concentrated liquid) or Kodak Alaris Xtol (powder).

And yes, I realize it is just a conversation with myself at this point.

I agree with you on these choices. DD-X and XTOL IF mixing 5 liters at a go works

 

[Sirius Glass]

However concerning the choice of developers Apug is rather confusing, for a newbie at least.

No, it is very easy. Just use XTOL. Try it, you will like it.

 

[DH_Studio]

There are a half a dozen or so common developers that will yield wonderful results with most any film shot in a standard way. To name a few Rodinal (liquid concentrate), DD-X (liquid concentrate), ID-ll (power), Ilfosol 3 (powder), Ilfotec HC (concentrated liquid), Xtol (power), D-76 (powder), and HC-110. Some on the list are Ilford products, some are Kodak products; the outlier is Rodinal. All will yield excellent results; all are versatile. The first main decision is do you want to mix powder (usually in the 1 gal to 5 litre range) or do you want to dilute a small amount of concentrated liquid each time you develop. For general work, I really like the convenience of using concentrated liquids. Using concentrated liquids is generally more expensive, but most often marginally so.

Some developers last a long time time - others fail without warning upon storage (Xtol come to mind). I use DD-X (on the expensive side) because it yields excellent results, is convenient, and has never failed me. I also us Rodinal (on the cheap side) because it is convenient, yields excellent results, and has never failed me.

You won't go wrong using any of the developers on the list above for most all situations. Other companies (Arista comes to mind) offer similar products. I've not used them so I can't comment.

Thanks, appreciate the info. So many people have suggested Rodinal that's next on the list (I've only used D76 and Tmax). Another person mentioned XTOL being their main developer, is there something in particular you like about it just a little more than the others?

 

[DH_Studio]

Kodak Alaris specifically recommends as their go to all around developer.

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/resources/AJ-3.pdf

I don't know if anyone else feels the resolution, but I do. Advice for film developer for someone starting out: Ilford DD-X (concentrated liquid) or Kodak Alaris Xtol (powder).

And yes, I realize it is just a conversation with myself at this point.

I'm going to try Rodinal and Xtol, I'll add DDX to the list as well. I found two other Ilford liquid developers at my local shop but unless DD-X also goes by another name, it wasn't one of them. I want to say HC and Ilfosol, if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[AgX]

No, it is very easy. Just use XTOL. Try it, you will like it.

Everyone at Apug kows that there is risk of sudden death for current XTOL.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks, appreciate the info. So many people have suggested Rodinal that's next on the list (I've only used D76 and Tmax). Another person mentioned XTOL being their main developer, is there something in particular you like about it just a little more than the others?

I found that XTOL has very smooth tonal graduations, fine grain and very tolerant of small errors in timing. It is the most forgiving developer that I have use.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Everyone at Apug kows that there is risk of sudden death for current XTOL.

The XTOL sudden death has been dead for over a decade. It had to do with early packaging problems that have not reoccurred.

 

[mshchem]

I'm going to try Rodinal and Xtol, I'll add DDX to the list as well. I found two other Ilford liquid developers at my local shop but unless DD-X also goes by another name, it wasn't one of them. I want to say HC and Ilfosol, if I'm remembering correctly.

Ilford DD is used by commercial labs using dip and dunk machines. DD is sold in the large jumbo colossal size, it is used as a replenisher. It requires a starter that adds bromide when making up a fresh "tank solution ". Ilford makes DD-X for people like us that want to use this developer without fiddling around with starters and ginormous packages. It's handy, can be used one shot in a rotary or used to it's stated capacity.

 

[mshchem]

The XTOL sudden death has been dead for over a decade. It had to do with early packaging problems that have not reoccurred.

ABSOLUTELY, USE DISTILLED /DEMINERALIZED WATER IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DRIVE A STAKE THROUGH THE HEART OF THIS NONSENSE. AS WITH EVERYTHING FULL CAPPED BOTTLES ARE THE KEY. OR AS THE OLD KODAK LITERATURE SAID "FULL STOPPERED BOTTLES"

 

[MattKing]

Everyone at Apug kows that there is risk of sudden death for current XTOL.

XTol lasts well. XTol doesn't give a visual indication when it dies.
If your batch has been mixed for more than six months test it before use.

 

[MattKing]

I'm going to try Rodinal and Xtol, I'll add DDX to the list as well. I found two other Ilford liquid developers at my local shop but unless DD-X also goes by another name, it wasn't one of them. I want to say HC and Ilfosol, if I'm remembering correctly.

Rodinol and X-Tol will give results that look a bit different - particularly with respect to grain.
Rodinol generally gives you a bit less speed than X-Tol.
In general though, for most of our photography there are really only small differences between what different developers give you.
If I were in your place, I would base my decisions on factors like availability, convenience of use, cost (maybe) and projected use.
You probably won't be in a position to reliably evaluate the differences between the results obtained from different developers until you are sufficiently experienced with one developer.

 

[mshchem]

XTol lasts well. XTol doesn't give a visual indication when it dies.
If your batch has been mixed for more than six months test it before use.

Valid point. This was a concern from the beginning, heavy users loved it because the developing agents didn't turn to black gunky tar. However the best you can hope to see is a very pale yellow as it goes off. I have developed a protocol that I use up a batch usually well before a year. Test anything you doubt.

I recently bought a couple of boxes of Ilford Bromophen paper developer from a shop in NYC, K&M rentals, 1 box was made in the UK, had Ilford's Mobberley site address on the shelf worn box. That's at least 16-17 years old!
You can never be too careful with critical work.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Any developer, if I have not used it for a while, I test, on a save for this purpose, 35mm leader. Just a good lab practice.

 

[wyofilm]

I didn't do an extensive search but both B&H and Freestyle are out of xtol. It was only month or so ago that I managed to buy xtol (the enthusiasm of Matt, Sirius, and mshchem compelled me to buy some). Before that it was unavailable. If I were choosing a new developer I don't think that xtol would be it. At least until supply is worked out. There are 'ascorbic acid' based xtol knock-offs out there. Are they truly xtol substitutes?

 

[MattKing]

I didn't do an extensive search but both B&H and Freestyle are out of xtol. It was only month or so ago that I managed to buy xtol (the enthusiasm of Matt, Sirius, and mshchem compelled me to buy some). Before that it was unavailable. If I were choosing a new developer I don't think that xtol would be it. At least until supply is worked out. There are 'ascorbic acid' based xtol knock-offs out there. Are they truly xtol substitutes?

I expect that the current "out of stock" status is due to how long it was out of stock before - they probably had a bunch of people who were waiting to buy.
You may have to wait for the next boat from Germany - or maybe it will be available from the distributors quickly, and back in B&H inventory soon.
I was pleasantly surprised that my favourite local retailer - Beau Photo - was able to order and get into stock ten packages of X-Tol before B&H got their recent (and now sold out) shipment. And I was overjoyed that I was able to buy some from Beau Photo at a price that is actually cheaper than B&H, once exchange is factored in.